my beefs with LoG

[schallmau3r]

There are many Threads praising LoG and i agree, its a gem. I found a few flaws tho:

1. Rogues are somewhat useless. They can attack from the second line but so can mages and they are by far more versatile. Also the backstabbing doesn't work well for me, maybe it's just me beeing to old to fuddle around with the movement. Without an enemy beeing frozen i couldn't land a backstab yet. The Missile/Throwing adds some nice variety but mages can throw as well and use Spears to attack. I haven't tried using rogues in the front line since tanks are more reliable and have a ton more health. I hope Almost Human changes either the Rogues abilities or work on the backstabbing to bring Rogues to their deserved Glory =)

2. I really miss the learning by doing from DM. The fixed skill system doesn't work as well for me, i can't really say why maybe because of the thrill in gaining an unexpected skill.

3. Potion brewing with ingredients limits its use by a lot. The System from DM were you could literally cast a spell into a flask was superior to the brewing in LoG. I understand that LoG does not pretend to be an exact remake and the DM brewing could disturb the gamebalance in ways i haven't thought of.

4. The Spells seem somewhat limited, i wish there were more Spells.

5. Luring Enemies under doors. Yes, i used the doors in DM a LOT. Too bad it doesn't work in LoG but thats just a minor

All in all LoG is, as i said, a precious gem between all the casual easy mode games that flood the market. I will play it over and over and im exited about upcomming DLCs which i will buy the moment they are available.

[Crash]

I agree that it is a shame you can't slam doors on unsuspecting monsters. What I would have done is to make this possible, but later in the game have monsters smart enough to slam the door on you if you were standing in the wrong place! Well, this is minor...

I am however extremely disappointed in the fixed skills per class, the inability for any class other than a mage to use magic at all, and the business of distributing skill points at each level up.

I was _really_ hoping for a return to the type of RPG where the characters gain ability depending solely upon their actions.

[Darklord]

I love my back row ranged Rogue, she does great damage, while the mage does slightly more he tends to run out of energy, where as my Rogue can just keep dishing out that damage. Also casting magic is slightly more complex and takes more effort to do in the heat of battle.

My melee rogue is less exciting at the moment, but hopefully he will improve once I get his skills up. I hear others have some great melee rogues.

Daniel.

[Crash]

The consolidation of "mana" and "stamina" into "energy, leaves a bit to get used to. In DM, not using mana for all characters meant that a resource was being wasted, and of course ninja weapons became ineffective early on. In some ways, LoG feels so much like a return to the old familiar dungeons, these differences in the game system are jarring at first. I also miss having to keep a supply of water :p

[spreadsheets]

There are some problems with your assessment of rogues.
First off, mages are not far more versatile than rogues. They can attack stuff and they can shield your party, if you go for one skill tree.
If you skill multiple schools, not only will you not have significantly more skills but you will trade in power for versatily, whereas a pure dagger rogue doesnt need to do that or a dagger/throwing rogue can attack both in melee and range. A mage using throwing weapons will not have any hopes of being as effective as a rogue specialized in them. Skill points do make that difference. The defensive portion of a mages abilities is also matched by how well an evasion-stacked rogue performs in the frontline. (It's pretty well.)

The second thing is that you claim tanks are more reliable when they clearly aren't in terms of dealing damage. Rogues will almost never or never miss, depending on whether they go melee or ranged and attack really quickly if they're in melee combat. That helps with evening out the occurrences of special attacks, giving you a lot more "sure" high-tier special attacks per fight than with slower weapons normally used by fighters.

[schallmau3r]

There are some problems with your assessment of rogues.
First off, mages are not far more versatile than rogues. They can attack stuff and they can shield your party, if you go for one skill tree.
If you skill multiple schools, not only will you not have significantly more skills but you will trade in power for versatily, whereas a pure dagger rogue doesnt need to do that or a dagger/throwing rogue can attack both in melee and range. A mage using throwing weapons will not have any hopes of being as effective as a rogue specialized in them. Skill points do make that difference. The defensive portion of a mages abilities is also matched by how well an evasion-stacked rogue performs in the frontline. (It's pretty well.)

I agree to some point but mages are more usefull. They have defensive Spells, utility spells and of course offensive spells.Rogues do nothing but damage and since they relay on energy as well their potential goes down too.

The second thing is that you claim tanks are more reliable when they clearly aren't in terms of dealing damage. Rogues will almost never or never miss, depending on whether they go melee or ranged and attack really quickly if they're in melee combat. That helps with evening out the occurrences of special attacks, giving you a lot more "sure" high-tier special attacks per fight than with slower weapons normally used by fighters.

A Tanks role is not to deal damage but eat it

Its all about personal preferences and atm. i do not see any reason to have a rogue in my party. The Tanks do ok damage but can take a lot more beatings. The 2 backrow Mages do the dirty work usually. Right now im on my second run with a monk (unarmed) fighter and a melee rogue in the front, 1 mage and 1 rogue (throwing) in the back. And im spending a lot more time resting because rogues (especially the melee one) run out of energy pretty fast and without energy theres no uber damage either.

I say it again: i love grimrock. I almost feel bad for buying it that cheap, i would have paid 19$ as well. But i'm confidend that there will be a lot of mods that may allow for a Dungeon MAster skill /magic and brewing system =)

[Chiller]

I found rogues to be bordering on OP-ness. You can stick them in the front row because they evade well and you can use them from the back row with either melee or missile. A missile rogue is much better than a mage (less of a hassle to shoot, faster attack rate with superior damage and no enemy immunity ever). Mages can aoe groups (which unfortunately almost never appear anymore on the later levels) and have utility spells but overall it's easier to just kill things fast.

[Halk]

I think rogues are fine, but there's other issues hampering them. Evasion vs protection seems to be a little too much in evasions favour.

Later game mage stuff seems a bit OTT in comparison to rogue damage, however at the moment the more dificult mage UI is somewhat of a balance for that. Missile damage seems a touch high, it's a wee bitty too easy because it's ranged and doesn't risk getting smacked in the face by monsters, and it hits every time.

I think though the only real issue is the evasion vs protection, the other issues are minor balance issues and will smooth out over time. The evasion vs protection one is slightly hurt too by warriors not having a skill tree that includes evasion and armour wearing skill while rogues do.

[Loktofeit]

I found rogues to be bordering on OP-ness. You can stick them in the front row because they evade well and you can use them from the back row with either melee or missile. A missile rogue is much better than a mage (less of a hassle to shoot, faster attack rate with superior damage and no enemy immunity ever). Mages can aoe groups (which unfortunately almost never appear anymore on the later levels) and have utility spells but overall it's easier to just kill things fast.

I also found the rogue an exceptional front line character. The bow really starts to shine about mid-tree. With double attack and the mage enchantments on the arrows, it gives me a front line ranged character that can evade swings and is less squishy than a mage. If there were more arrows in the game, I would definitely try a party with two archer rogues in the front line.

[Darklord]

I also found the rogue an exceptional front line character. The bow really starts to shine about mid-tree. With double attack and the mage enchantments on the arrows, it gives me a front line ranged character that can evade swings and is less squishy than a mage. If there were more arrows in the game, I would definitely try a party with two archer rogues in the front line.

A front line Ranged Rogue eh, that's an interesting idea, can you elaborate on the race, stats and skill choices you went for?

Daniel.