Set bonus lost when shields are in non-active weapon slot.

[sapientCrow]

These discussions/arguments always fascinate me.

As we debate the A and B we could be discussing how we do C together.

This game already has an editor. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to enjoy/play a game.
The best solution is to simply be allowed to get in there and disable the need for the shield for set bonus. Like the archmage set.
Since they did not do that in LOG1 it is unlikely here too but I can hope.
I would truly like to mod some stuff.

On another note I have indeed stated my disappointment with the loss from orb and wand swapping. I do not notice it as much later in the game since my mage chugs potions.

I dig this game very much. It is awesome. This weapon swapping issue and yes the penalty using it is not so great.
I honestly would have just removed the secondary slots and added a quick slot for ease of use for such things as shovel potions and rope.
There is simply no point in swapping aside from the alchemist of course but that could be done via quick slots as well. Well I suppose the dagger for elementals is another quick swap usage.

Overall though and perhaps this was intended it does not make the game play more efficiently or with faster precision because we have a new slot.
These additions should be imo evolutions.

Again I really think this game is fantastic. However all things can be improved. And if we could mod more directly we would have numerous solutions.
Instead we are hoping that someone from AH sees the post and takes our opinions into account and possibly releases a solution or an altered design for the sets.

[Dr.Disaster]

This game already has an editor. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to enjoy/play a game.
The best solution is to simply be allowed to get in there and disable the need for the shield for set bonus. Like the archmage set.
Since they did not do that in LOG1 it is unlikely here too but I can hope.
I would truly like to mod some stuff.

This is indeed possible for any mod to come. All you have to do is to redefine the conditions specified in the set items definitions about how/when the set is complete.

On another note I have indeed stated my disappointment with the loss from orb and wand swapping. I do not notice it as much later in the game since my mage chugs potions.

The concept of placing potions on cooldown effected slots is totally weird; it's hard to believe that people do that. When my characters need a potion i want to use it NOW and not after some cooldown period allows it. In addition - as you noticed - my character can never gain any hand-used potions maximum effect because any buff-granting item he has to hold to benefit from is missing.

Yet I'm sure the modders will very soon port over the quick-action-bar they made for LoG1 mods so potions can be used by hotkeys.

[DrWaggles]

The entire point of the thread was the idea that I lost fire immunity or the 75 health boost that comes as set bonuses when I didn't have the Meteor/Crystal shield active. These are the only two item sets in the game affected by this.

I understand that you'll lose whatever boosts come from the items themselves, I just think it is kind of poor design that the items don't count toward the set bonuses that aren't even associated with a specific item, but the fact that you have all of them equipped.

I mean, I'm lugging around two heavy shields that (along with the rest of the set) were expensive and time-consuming to gather (requiring golden keys, difficult fights, etc), and I only get the benefits of all of that work half of the time when I am doing melee combat, and not the other half of the time when I want to use some ranged weapons because some of the enemies I'm fighting are better to attack from a distance.

I mean, it's not like I just have the Meteor or Crystal set just sitting in my inventory. I have it all equipped, using all of my armor slots, and one of the 4 hand slots I'm given.

I'm not asking for the 75 HP to instantly come back, I'm saying that if I switch from tab 1 to tab 2, I shouldn't lose the 75 hp at all because my shield is on tab 1 and on my character. If I remove the shield from either tab and put in on the ground or in my inventory, then yes, I should lose the 75 hp from my max health and I should have to regen that hp if I decide to re-equip it.

I'm also not asking to keep the +10 evasion and Immunity to Petrify when it isn't in one of the two active hands, the same way I wouldn't expect to keep any bonuses from an individual weapon/orb/shield/etc when they aren't active.

The point is that I worked hard to find all of these items and the set bonus should be my reward if I decide to burden a character with that much armor, especially when I went out of my way to put 4 of their available skill points into armor so I didn't receive penalties, and limited the amount of stuff I could carry by having a large portion of my max carry weight dedicated to armor. It just sucks that the game doesn't recognize me as having the entire set when it is in a secondary set of weapon slots.

[Dr.Disaster]

I mean, it's not like I just have the Meteor or Crystal set just sitting in my inventory. I have it all equipped, using all of my armor slots, and one of the 4 hand slots I'm given.

I think this is the basis of the misconception people fall to: characters might have 4 hand slots but they don't have 4 hands and therefore can't hold 4 items at once. Thus 2 of those 4 slots are always hidden like an invisible inventory expansion. Think of it as a Lara Croft style quick-swap belt.

I'm not asking for the 75 HP to instantly come back, I'm saying that if I switch from tab 1 to tab 2, I shouldn't lose the 75 hp at all because my shield is on tab 1 and on my character. If I remove the shield from either tab and put in on the ground or in my inventory, then yes, I should lose the 75 hp from my max health and I should have to regen that hp if I decide to re-equip it.

Sorry but you do ask to not lose those 75 HP or the fire immunity after putting the required items for those buffs in your off-hands and a "never lose" request is even more then an instant return.

Switching weapon sets moves the in-hand items into special inventory slots (onto said Lara Croft belt) and brings the items kept there into your hands. That is IDENTICAL(!) to a manual item swap from your hands to your inventory and naturally items in your inventory do not grant a bonus. It's been like this in each and every game with weapon slots i've played since the 90's and why suddenly people request a different behavior than the established routine in the rest of the gaming world is most puzzling.

[rampantdurandal]

Despite some obvious trolling in this thread, the point remains that this change is a step backwards for character builds.

Making shields required for the set bonus only limits options. It means that dual wielding and weapon+staff are less effective.

There's no reason for this. It just makes heavy weapon + shield users more effective, and they are arguably one of the most effective builds already.

Please revert this change. This bug was actually a neat feature.

[Neutronium Dragon]

While I don't feel that it's appropriate for a currently-unequipped item - which includes anything in the inactive toggle - to provide its benefits, it *is* true that the +health (and +vitality/willpower/energy) items and set benefits are awkward because of the way that max/current work (and that isn't an issue with traits that boost other stats or provide resistances). Unfortunately, I don't see a good way to solve the problem short of not having those traits on handheld items (or sets that include handheld items).

The 'simple' method would be to scale current health/energy with the change to max, but even this becomes a touch exploitable - tab to the other slot (to reduce the maximum) for potion use or just between-battle regeneration, then back (to amplify the effect of the gain). It's unlikely to be a huge exploit, granted, but it's still better not to introduce them on purpose.

Having current values change equally is another option, but this creates a situation where someone with low/no energy could do a quick toggle to get some back (if the value gained is greater than the amount that was left, since it presumably can't have a below-zero value). It wouldn't be an issue with health, since 0 = death, although it would create the potential for accidental suicides if you changed gear with low health.

[badhabit]

While I don't feel that it's appropriate for a currently-unequipped item - which includes anything in the inactive toggle - to provide its benefits, it *is* true that the +health (and +vitality/willpower/energy) items and set benefits are awkward because of the way that max/current work (and that isn't an issue with traits that boost other stats or provide resistances). Unfortunately, I don't see a good way to solve the problem short of not having those traits on handheld items (or sets that include handheld items).

The 'simple' method would be to scale current health/energy with the change to max, but even this becomes a touch exploitable - tab to the other slot (to reduce the maximum) for potion use or just between-battle regeneration, then back (to amplify the effect of the gain). It's unlikely to be a huge exploit, granted, but it's still better not to introduce them on purpose.

Having current values change equally is another option, but this creates a situation where someone with low/no energy could do a quick toggle to get some back (if the value gained is greater than the amount that was left, since it presumably can't have a below-zero value). It wouldn't be an issue with health, since 0 = death, although it would create the potential for accidental suicides if you changed gear with low health.

I see it the same way, loosing the the set benefit for hand switching is reasonable, but having a serious disadvantage by it, is not.

Two problems need to solved here on the health game mechanic: accidental suicide and current-health loss for temporary shield switching by hands

0.) current AH mechanic: potential suicide and health drain, no exploitation for healing possible, simple.
1.) Flash Souls model with current health buffer in object: no exploitation, no health drain, no suicide. Complicated game mechanic extension.
2.) Scaling current health value always to max health instantly percent wise: minor exploitation for healing, no or minimized health drain impact, no suicide, simple to implement.
3.) allow temporary "overshot" in current health: a changed max-health don't change current-health at all. Also no max-capping, allowing temporary larger current-health than max-health. Not usable as heal potion exploit but usable for giving all characters additional health temporary. Could be minimized by slowly reducing the overshot health to the "normal" max-health with regeneration rate. First variant simple, second one potential complicated.

[petri]

Two potential fixes we're considering are:

A) Remove shield from crystal armor set. Crystal shield would still exist, but it would not be needed to complete the armor set.

B) Adjust health / energy as percentage. E.g. if character is at full health and completes the armor set, the character would still be at full health (which is now higher). Same with unequipping. Downside: More complex to implement.

btw. there is no "accidental suicide" chance with current implementation -- only max health is affected.

[Dr.Disaster]

B) Adjust health / energy as percentage. E.g. if character is at full health and completes the armor set, the character would still be at full health (which is now higher). Same with unequipping. Downside: More complex to implement.

On the contrary, this is very easy to implement.
Of course it requires to break the logic used for every other health/energy buff granting item in LoG, but here goes:

Right now when completed the set does a "Champion:setStatMax("Health", 75)" to the wearer when equipping the last part. All you have to do is add a "Champion:setStat("Health", 75)" for the wearer and you're done. Item logic successfully broken, people happy.
Sideeffect: this naturally adds a suicide chance for the set user but who cares when people are happy now?

Just in case you are really considering this: can we have that for every other health/energy buffing item too?

[Vardis]

Either one sounds fine to me.