Wanting to make a dungeon more dynamic. Got questions.

[MrChoke]

So making a dungeon for other people to play and enjoy is great. But the maker doesn't get near as much excitement when he knows about every room, puzzle, monster, etc... I have been trying to figure out how far I can take this modding to make a dungeon more dynamic so even the maker may not know exactly what to expect when he plays.

There are some things I am certain are possible. Use of math.random() to create the varying numbers. With scripting, we can dynamically create objects, place them at random or varying locations. We can do the same for monsters, including varying their health or other attributes too. I am almost sure we can even give monsters varying items to hold. We can set different puzzle solutions (random lever combinations for example...). There is very good potential.

Where the limit of this game modding capability may lie, is in dynamic creation of the levels themselves. Also unknown level control.

Here are some questions. Any help on them would be great:

1) Can we dynamically create layer squares? I am referring to the 3rd editor mode where you can lay down floors, walls, etc... The "spawn" command does not understand any of these tile names. There are a few floors tiles available as assets in mode 2, like "dungeon_floor_1" for example. Maybe that can work but I don't think its the same thing. And I fear too much spawning of assets like these will bog the game down. Is there another way? For example, if you open Dungeon.lua, you will see layer tables for each level. I want to be able to dynamically build these layer objects.

2) Do we have access to the level world coordinates and can we modify them? I am referring to how you define the X, Y and Z of your levels. We cannot seem to get access to these level objects let alone modify them. Wouldn't it be cool if you can vary which level is west of another? You can dynamically change the dungeon layout on each play.

3) If we cannot move a level to a certain X,Y,Z coordinate can we at least make a forest_exit entity go to another level? These things always go to edge of the next level in that direction. I wish we could make it dynamic as to where it goes.

Anyway, like I say, I may be asking too much.

[cameronC]

I did some tests in the first Grimrock editor and have been setting up a (hacky but largely working) 'random' loot generation and placement system. I'll touch upon your questions as best I can with what we know.

1. I would guess in theory you could dynamically create the tiles table somehow but have zero clue if there is a way to set that up in advance of dungeon.lua loading or just, in general, how that would work out. The easier way, in my unskilled opinion, is to plan out your dungeon in blocks somehow and make a test dungeon where you go through and draw the dungeon, place items, etc.

Then look in that dungeon.lua for the specific spawn commands that generate the rooms/blocks and work those into a script that pulls correctly sized/oriented rooms into your dungeon from a group of rooms that fit (If I explained that clearly). So, plan out the size/shape of the rooms/blocks that will make up your dungeon, build some rooms and use the spawn commands as a basis for the building of (specific parts, at least) of the dungeon. The coordinates might have to be offset/corrected, depending how your are picking the rooms and how "random" your dungeon can be. If your dungeon has x "random" blocks in set positions on the map, you could build one room and copy/paste it to each other place and grab precise coodinates, etc. The identifier at the end of the spawn commands would have to be removed as well, so that the game would id them as it makes them to make things easier but I think you just omit that final string.

(And if you want to have random "walls", and it turns out we can't actually spawn wall blocks on the fly, spawn secret doors (and pillars, if needed) in place of them, just be sure to keep one full empty tile length between the other side to rpevent light, etc from getting through, I think.)

2. Likewise, I think this would just have to be done by picking random levels and running a level of spawn commands on the map they end up on this play through rather then juggling around the map coordinates when the game is loaded (Though we just don't have the correct information yet to know if this is possible).

3. As addressed in another thread on here, don't think it's possible, but you can place a teleporter w/o particles to sorta accomplish this, i think.

I don't think you are asking too much, it just may be too early to get all the answers right now :)

[MrChoke]

Thanks for the reply. I have done a bit more testing on feasibility of dynamically removing and creating walls and open squares. It turns out I can create the walls just fine. I just can't remove a wall placed by the editor, therefore I cannot dynamically create an open square from the wall. Let me more specific, I can get the system gen'd IDs and remove the floors, ceilings and even pillars of a wall square created by the editor. But you still cannot walk on the square. Its still a wall, even though it has no entities and even if I spawn a floor and ceiling to it. I tried setAutomapTile() thinking that was the answer and it still doesn't change the behavior. I can't figure it out. Maybe its bugged.

[Chimera005ao]

So...you're dynamically placing walls, but you say you can't remove them because they are placed by the editor.
I'm confused. Aren't you using wall objects and invisible barriers?

[MrChoke]

Yes, I can dynamically create a wall with the spawn command. And whatever I create with spawn I can then call destroy on and it gets removed. This works.

However, I cannot make a wall placed by the editor, not be a wall. When you specify a square as a wall with the editor you cannot undo it via any script that I have found. Note, that I can dynamically strip this wall square of all of its textures so that it is completely void. I can then dynamically add a floor and a ceiling so that it looks like an open square now. But I still cannot walk onto it. The "isWall()" command still returns true. I swear its the setAutomapTile() command that is bugged or something. The "AutoMap" represents the "layer" table in dungeon.lua. It is the walls. And when I set it to "2", the value for an open square that I can walk on, it doesn't matter. It still won't let me walk on it. Its like the command is not taking effect.

UPDATE: I just realized, getAutomap() and setAutomap() are for the "Map" function when you hit tab. You can dynamically modify the viewed map with these commands. It has nothing to do with the square itself. The initial values do line up with the "tiles" table in dungeon.lua but that actually changes as you walk around and fill your "map".

So I have no idea what can be used. I got a feeling this is hole in the modding capability or something. I am quite frustrated.

[Ixnatifual]

Are you attempting to randomly generate the layout of the dungeon similar to a Roguelike? If so that should be very interesting.

[Chimera005ao]

Yes, I can dynamically create a wall with the spawn command. And whatever I create with spawn I can then call destroy on and it gets removed. This works.

So I have no idea what can be used. I got a feeling this is hole in the modding capability or something. I am quite frustrated.

Is there a reason you can't just use that?
That's how I always assumed it would be done.

[MrChoke]

Is there a reason you can't just use that?
That's how I always assumed it would be done.

It seems like missing functionality when we can create walls from a square that starts out as an open square but we cannot create an open square that started out as a wall. Especially when we can strip that wall down so that it looks like an open square but we still can't walk on it!

[Chimera005ao]

There's a difference between creating wall objects that create the illusion that the square is a wall, and wall tiles placed in the editor.

Placing indoor tiles next to outdoor tiles creates a weird situation where you don't see any walls, so you have to place them manually.
If you want to place multiple floors, you also must use a similar trick.
You just work with what you have.

Removing the textures of the wall is far different than removing the wall...
If I were trying to dynamically create/destroy a dungeon, I'd probably make an empty room in the dungeon, generate the walls, and remove them as needed. It might not be the best or only way, just the approach I'd take.