Grimrock

Dr.Disaster wrote:The +75 max health armor set bonus works exactly the same as all other flat bonuses in the game. Take the Pearl Shield for instance: it grants Evasion +5 and Energy +25. Equipping it results into an immediate increase of Evasion and the increase of max energy but you will see no change to your current amount of energy. To benefit from this bonus you have to fill or regen it up yourself; exact same mechanic as with the crystal armor set bonus.

I understand how the game currently works, thank you. But how is that explanation helping when I'm suggesting that the current system should be slightly modified in case of active slot switching?

Honestly I totally support that if you have a shield on another slot you should get the set bonus, its like having the shield on your back and you are not using it.

steelsoldier wrote:Honestly I totally support that if you have a shield on another slot you should get the set bonus, its like having the shield on your back and you are not using it.

You want to receive a bonus for something? Well than: use it actively! Otherwise you could also request to get each bonus from any item you carry around in a freaking bag because you can't wear 3 amulets and 5 bracers at once.

FlashSoul wrote:I understand how the game currently works, thank you. But how is that explanation helping when I'm suggesting that the current system should be slightly modified in case of active slot switching?

Obviously you don't understand it.

This is what you suggested:

It should be kinda like if the shield had its own hp pool which:
- adds up to the wearer's pool when active
- only regenerate when active and the wearer's own pool is full
- takes damage before the wearer's own pool

and this is how things work:
- the entire armor set adds to the wearer's max health pool when it is active like any other equipped item with similar features
- the entire armor set bonus becomes an indistinguishable part of the max health (or max energy) pool like any other item granting a bonus and as such the entire pool does regenerate as a whole as long as the health (or energy) pool are not full.
- there is not "damage goes to xyz first" in a pool

minmay wrote:Items do not give their stat/resistance/whatever bonuses while in the alternate weapon set. It is therefore completely inconsistent for them to give the set bonus while in the alternate weapon set. And giving the stat/resistance/whatever bonuses while in the alternate weapon set is obviously undesirable, it defeats the entire point: instead of having two weapon sets you could easily swap between, you would have one weapon set and one pair of shields/staves/whatever with good passives.

The point isn't that you get the stat boosts from the non-active weapon slots, it's that you get the set bonuses.

The Crystal Shield gives you +10 Evasion and immunity to Petrify (hardly the best shield in the game imo). But when you have the entire Crystal Armor set (including the shield) equipped, you get an additional +75 health on top of all of the other stats. Similarly, the Meteor Shield gives you +7 Evasion and +10 Fire Resist, but when you have the full meteor set equipped, you get 100% fire immunity.

The idea is that if you have your set-based shield in your I weapon slot, that you can switch to your II weapon slot without losing the +75 health or the 100% fire immunity, but you would lose the +10 Evasion and Petrify Immunity or the +7 Evasion and +10 Fire Resist for Crystal and Meteor Armor, respectively. So your second set of weapons wouldn't be useful outside of set bonuses.

The main issue is that you lose a lot when switching. For the Meteor Armor, you drop to whatever your base fire resistance is, as none of the other armor offers fire resistance. For the Crystal Armor, you drop 75 health, and that 75 health isn't regained when you re-equip the Crystal Shield, it's added as empty maximum health which isn't useful at all (without potions) considering how slow regen is.

The only workaround that includes keeping the set bonus for the Meteor Armor would be to keep set bonuses for items not in your active weapon slot. I mean, you're still burdened by it in terms of weight, and it does still take up one of the four quick-access items you can have on a character, and if you decide to just wear it on your back, you don't get any of the stat bonuses from the item itself, so I don't see why it would be balance breaking. I mean, from a lore sense, I imagine that the secondary weapon slots are all carried on a characters back/belt, and it makes a lot of sense to get armor bonuses from a shield you're wearing on your back, right?

Your idea is false.
Switching the armor set's shield out of active use while not losing the armor set bonus was a bug.
It got fixed.
Period.
End of story.

DrWaggles wrote:The main issue is that you lose a lot when switching. For the Meteor Armor, you drop to whatever your base fire resistance is, as none of the other armor offers fire resistance. For the Crystal Armor, you drop 75 health, and that 75 health isn't regained when you re-equip the Crystal Shield, it's added as empty maximum health which isn't useful at all (without potions) considering how slow regen is.

This is no issue. This is how all bonus granting items in LoG are handled. You receive an empty +max health or energy on top of your previous max.

Take the Pearl Shield as example. It adds +25 to your max energy when equipped but not the energy itself. It's up to you to fill this buff with life. Switch weapon slots and both the added max is gone and any energy granted by it and it's the very same with the Crystal armor set bonus. Full set equipped -> bonus. Shield switched away -> no bonus.

I shouldn't be able to dual wield and get +75 health from the set bonus. No, it wouldn't be game breaking if I did, but that's clearly not the intent.

Dr.Disaster wrote:

FlashSoul wrote:I understand how the game currently works, thank you. But how is that explanation helping when I'm suggesting that the current system should be slightly modified in case of active slot switching?

Obviously you don't understand it.

I see. So you were misunderstanding the proposition from the start. Here is how it currently works :
- When you switch the shield away from the active slot, you lose 75 HP (and 75 max HP).
- When you switch back the shield to the active slot, your max HP is increased by 75 but your health itself isn't.

Here is how I would like it to work :
- When you switch the shield away from the active slot, you lose 75 HP (and 75 max HP).
- When you switch back the shield to the active slot, your max HP is increased by 75 and your health itself is increased by the set/shield's "health pool" which may or may not be 75.
I will leave the remaining details out not to confuse you further.

FlashSoul wrote:I see. So you were misunderstanding the proposition from the start. Here is how it currently works :
- When you switch the shield away from the active slot, you lose 75 HP (and 75 max HP).
- When you switch back the shield to the active slot, your max HP is increased by 75 but your health itself isn't.

Here is how I would like it to work :
- When you switch the shield away from the active slot, you lose 75 HP (and 75 max HP).
- When you switch back the shield to the active slot, your max HP is increased by 75 and your health itself is increased by the set/shield's "health pool" which may or may not be 75.
I will leave the remaining details out not to confuse you further.

Unfortunately, the "remaining details" include instantly killing your character if they have less than 75 hp and switch away from the shield. That seems worse than any of the issues your suggestion is meant to fix.

In general, I think it would be nice if a shield in your off-slot counted just for the set bonus. Or if the set bonuses didn't include bonus HP and Energy (instead just boosting your stats, etc.). Or if shields were never part of a set! I agree that the way it works now discourages the slot-switching feature and is not stellar game design.

FlashSoul wrote:Here is how I would like it to work :
- When you switch the shield away from the active slot, you lose 75 HP (and 75 max HP).
- When you switch back the shield to the active slot, your max HP is increased by 75 and your health itself is increased by the set/shield's "health pool" which may or may not be 75.

sigh ..
I know exactly what you want: an instant +75 health item a.k.a. an infinitely reusable health potion.

That is not going to happen.

Your character only loses health by switching away the crystal shield, when he is between (max health - 75) and max health.
When he is already below (max health - 75) he'll only lose 75 max health and not a single health point.

Removing an item that grants +max health will not kill your character even when he is at 1 health because the removal of the item subtracts from your max health and not your actual health.

I want a ratling mutation to occasionally give things like an extra arm or two, and then I can triple wield with a shield. Maybe next patch?