BattleMage is a superior version of the Wizard

[Vardis]

I went with an alchemist as my caster planning on buffing him with +willpower to make up for his energy deficiencies, and ended up not spending one stat potion on him because it wasn't necessary (used them all on dex instead). Finished with 100+ energy herbs, a few dozen greater energy potions, and didn't even give him both +25 energy books. If you only go with one caster, you'll have more than enough energy if you want it.

[Jirodyne]

I want in on this. Ok, having played and beaten the game twice, Once using a Wizard and once using a Battlemage, I can honestly say the difference is how your going to play them.

If your going to be kiting a lot, if your smart and know how to play the game, not a complete and total noob, The Wizard is better. Why? Because you don't need the higher health and protection if your even somewhat good at the game. My Wizard has never, I repreat NEVER died threw out my intire first blind playthrough of the game. Why? Because I wasn't stupid enough to get into a situation where he died. A Wizard can go full Con and Magic skills and cast spell after spell after spell after spell, almost never needing to recharge before the enemy is dead.

Now if your constantly face tanking, your too stupid to understand the game and how to use the envirement, AI, and situation to your advantage, or just don't like the rune system, then Battlemage is better for you. Because it has more hp and protection. But because it can't just spec in full Con and Magic, and can't sling nearly as many spells. A whole lot less ammount of spells. His main purpose is Defence spells. 3 Con, 3 Fire, and 3 Water for Shield, Force Field, and Fire and Water Shields. With the other points being in Armor, and if he is in the back, Acc to be able to hit from back there with a weapon, because his mana will CONSTANTLY be running out.

Having beaten the game once with both classes, I can honestly say the Wizard is far suppiorer if you know how to play, and the Battlemage is only for those that find the game too hard, or don't like the Rune System too much, or is not going to be doing that much magic.

[Vardis]

If you put a battlemage in the back, why would his energy constantly be running out? 10 less from the two less willpower, and ~30 less from 5 per level instead of 7 isn't going to matter much. If you have just one caster, you should have ~300 mana (or more with archmage full set), so an extra 10-15% mana isn't that significant. It's not like an extra 10-15% damage would be. Even a greater energy potion won't top you off at that point, so you only get an extra cast from full to empty, and slightly more regen from the 2 willpower. I had so much mana with my back row alchemist, I went for the extra 20% regen instead of another 30 mana.

Don't get me wrong, a battle mage is the wrong choice for someone you want to purely use as a caster in back, but it's not like you're gimped.

[Jirodyne]

If you put a battlemage in the back, why would his energy constantly be running out? 10 less from the two less willpower, and ~30 less from 5 per level instead of 7 isn't going to matter much. If you have just one caster, you should have ~300 mana (or more with archmage full set), so an extra 10-15% mana isn't that significant. It's not like an extra 10-15% damage would be. Even a greater energy potion won't top you off at that point, so you only get an extra cast from full to empty, and slightly more regen from the 2 willpower. I had so much mana with my back row alchemist, I went for the extra 20% regen instead of another 30 mana.

Don't get me wrong, a battle mage is the wrong choice for someone you want to purely use as a caster in back, but it's not like you're gimped.

Well as you said, a battlemage is the wrong choice for something using a pure caster. The Arguement going on right now is that The battlemage is better than Wizard, even as a pure caster, because little difference. Makes me laugh. Everyone seems to forget to add in Items, armor, and SKILLS. A Pure magic will go 5 Con, 5 Fire, 4 Air, 3 Water, 17 skillpoints. And that's it, don't need anything else.

A Battlemage however won't be a pure caster, it needs points in Armor, and if you already have 2 frontline tanks, will be in the back so needs 2 points in Acc, and since can't rely on just Magic, having MUCH less Energy from 2-3 less points in Concentration, less amount of spells, and have a different Role. A Battlemage's skills would be 3 Con, 3 Fire, 3 water, 2 Acc, 4 Armor, 15 points with extra going into either Light or heavy weapon for whatever Melee they want, or 3 in Crit to backstab with daggers.

Basically, Looking at it on Paper, with no extra stuff, and the same race; Then yes 30ish energy difference and that's it. You take in Armor, Weapon, Skill points, and the way the game is set up, traits, race bonuses, and the role they play? You will find the Wizard is far more better than the Battlemage.

[Rithrin]

The difference is that you don't need energy to stay alive, but you need health to keep casting. This thing is huge. You can't afford to interrupt your casting because you have to keep popping health potions cause your wizard takes 2 hits to die.

On the other hand, you may be interrupting both your spellcasting and also your other characters' attacks by drinking Energy potions as your Battle Mage.

A battle mage is superior in most situations in my opinion, it's true you have to spend some points in armor (he's probably going to get the skill tomes) and can cast couple fewer spells but the health pool and protection bonuses give you the time to pop a energy potions and be back in business. If wizard spells were faster then we could discuss of general effectiveness.

How does increased health/protection translate into extra time to pop Energy potions? If your Wizard/Battle Mage is being attacked while drinking potions in the back row, you will gain much, much more time by either changing the party's facing or just moving.

A factor that has to be taken into account is the party composition though. An alchemist is insane with a battle mage, who's never going to run out of potions, if you don't run an alchemist then probably a wizard would be better for a single encounter, but after that you're gonna need potions as well.

A lot of people are saying this, but the same argument can be made against the battle mage. You can always brew more Health potions if your caster is taking a lot of damage, especially with an Alchemist on the team.

Extra mana is irrelevant as we have potions. The only time this is not the case is if there is no potions and the fight is an endurance test.
Heavy Meteor Swarm use with or without the extra mana is going to be needing a lot of potions.

Again, the same could be said for Health. And with a larger Energy pool, you may be killing the enemy faster in a test of endurance.


But, honestly, I believe most of the differences are so minor, it doesn't matter too much. If you feel your wizard dies too often, you can give them the Health tomes and Amulet of Nergal. Or you can make them a Battle Mage and gives them points in Armor and sacrifice Energy. The decision to bring Battle Mage vs Wizard comes entirely down to how much damage you expect to receive. My human Wizard was the master of two elements by late game, having nearly 100% resists in them, and simply casted a protection spell for any other element I encountered. Resists saved my Wizard from so much more damage than extra Protection or 50 HP ever would have.

[Belligero]

The Wizard advantage is completely irrelevant as by endgame I near had 60 Etherweeds and more than enough Mana Potions to spare in my Battlemage's inventory.

Battlemage are just superior.

They should have given Wizard an innate 5/10% damage increase on their spells or something to make some more distinct advantage.

[minmay]

The Battlemage advantage is completely irrelevant as by endgame I near had 100 Blooddrop Caps and more than enough Health Potions to spare in my Wizard's inventory.

[Jirodyne]

The Battlemage advantage is completely irrelevant as by endgame I near had 100 Blooddrop Caps and more than enough Health Potions to spare in my Wizard's inventory.

Is correct. Like I pointed out in an earlier post. On my FIRST play of the game, completely BLIND, I ran with a Wizard, and he NEVER, Not even ONCE died. And I didn't even have an Alchemist either, so limited number of potions. But I still won with very few deaths and none of them my wizard. Most were my Barbarian getted cheap shotted by enemies not having cooldowns so went 'Hit-it-it-it-it*died*'. That is something I REAAAAAALLY hate about the enemies in LoG2, can't remember if enemies did it in LoG1. But Enemies here don't have attack cooldowns, It's completely random. So They can Hit. Wait. Hit. Wait. Then go Hit. Hit. Hit. Hit. And some like the undead, spiders, and ratlings can go Hit-it-it-it-it! I even counted once and had A Ratling with 2 throwing knives attack 12 times rapidly without pause in the time it took for my wizard to recharge after using Shock and finally use it and kill him.

[Rithrin]

The Battlemage advantage is completely irrelevant as by endgame I near had 100 Blooddrop Caps and more than enough Health Potions to spare in my Wizard's inventory.

Is correct. Like I pointed out in an earlier post. On my FIRST play of the game, completely BLIND, I ran with a Wizard, and he NEVER, Not even ONCE died. And I didn't even have an Alchemist either, so limited number of potions. But I still won with very few deaths and none of them my wizard. Most were my Barbarian getted cheap shotted by enemies not having cooldowns so went 'Hit-it-it-it-it*died*'. That is something I REAAAAAALLY hate about the enemies in LoG2, can't remember if enemies did it in LoG1. But Enemies here don't have attack cooldowns, It's completely random. So They can Hit. Wait. Hit. Wait. Then go Hit. Hit. Hit. Hit. And some like the undead, spiders, and ratlings can go Hit-it-it-it-it! I even counted once and had A Ratling with 2 throwing knives attack 12 times rapidly without pause in the time it took for my wizard to recharge after using Shock and finally use it and kill him.

I believe the enemies are simply using Special Attacks, just like the player can. You can't see them charging anything up, but the Ghoul's ability to hit 3 or 4 or even 6 times in a row is reminiscent of the Flurry of Slashes specials some bladed weapons have in-game. I don't think it's that they have no cooldown, they are just sometimes using an ability that attacks many times in a row. It just further reinforces the need to sidestep attacks whenever possible.

[Vardis]

To get 12 attacks, it sounds like that ratling was abusing being able to throw knives with the mouse to get the shorter cooldown instead of throwing it as an equipped weapon.