Grimrock

Ty.
fortunatlly i don't have, yet, memory problems
i just wanted to know how u manage so many levels (...and how u did them, i'm at 14 and i'm tired)

...and who you are going to expect to play through that?

Granamir wrote:Ty.
fortunatlly i don't have, yet, memory problems
i just wanted to know how u manage so many levels (...and how u did them, i'm at 14 and i'm tired)

Well actually it is not hard to manage this if all level are correctly grouped. And they are not all complete levels.
The real problem I encounter sometime, is for some reason, I had to insert a level between other, but I can't because I have teleporters on some levels or I'd have to reconfigure all teleporters. The mod is not "dm" style, some of dungeons, cave, city, or castle are but most of it is based on exploration.

I'm doing an huge lanscape, that's why I got mucho levels. So doing that with a few levels could be hard. Anyway, I'm not doing the entire landsacape, this is too huge.

THOM wrote:...and who you are going to expect to play through that?

I don't know, there is always crazy players like me

Honestly I do this because I found it fun and interesting.
Now if the mod will be ever finished and played? that's a total mystery
I realy, realy like huge super mega mod! 50 hours of plays? 100? more? a real pleasure!


Nope, exit can't have a custom destination, only teleports.
Or it may be scripted.

well maybe i'll take a quick look when u finish it

Oh I'm sure people will play it. They might not finish it, but it will definitely be played for a bit. I would try it just to see how the first hour or so feels. The opening moments of a Mod really help define long-term commitment, in my opinion.

bongobeat wrote:The real problem I encounter sometime, is for some reason, I had to insert a level between other, but I can't because I have teleporters on some levels or I'd have to reconfigure all teleporters.

I don't understand how it's possible to have this problem in Grimrock 2? Levels' coordinates are independent of their level number, so moving the coordinates around shouldn't require changing any teleporters. The only way you'd need to change the order of levels in the editor for gameplay purposes is if you need them to initialize in a specific order or something.

I like the idea of a big world, but I don't like the idea of a boring sparse world that's really only big for the sake of being big. All these levels, I can't help but worry about quality being low - what are you doing to avoid that?

bongobeat wrote:The real problem I encounter sometime, is for some reason, I had to insert a level between other, but I can't because I have teleporters on some levels or I'd have to reconfigure all teleporters.

I ran in to this early on and realized very quickly that if I want to add new Maps, it is better to Right Click on the very last level in the Game Editor, and add it there. It doesn't matter if this new level is listed last in the Game Editor, it has no impact on how it ends up on the map. Add new levels at the end, and simply adjust the X/Y/Z coordinates to place it where you want to.

So for example, if you have 10 levels in your Mod, and all the Teleporters from Map 2 have targets on Map 3. Then you want to add a level "between" Map 2 and Map 3; you do not have to literally add it between them on the Editor. If you try to do that, then the Teleporters on Map 2 will need to be reconfigured. Instead, this new Level (call it Map 11) simply needs to have its X/Y/Z coodinates adjusted so that when the game is played, it ends up between Map 2 and Map 3.

Hope that makes sense

minmay wrote:

bongobeat wrote:The real problem I encounter sometime, is for some reason, I had to insert a level between other, but I can't because I have teleporters on some levels or I'd have to reconfigure all teleporters.

I don't understand how it's possible to have this problem in Grimrock 2? Levels' coordinates are independent of their level number, so moving the coordinates around shouldn't require changing any teleporters. The only way you'd need to change the order of levels in the editor for gameplay purposes is if you need them to initialize in a specific order or something.

True, I wrote this wrong.
I mean if you set a teleport that brings you into another level.
I always notice, that the teleport, let's say, if the teleport is on the 4th level and it teleports you in the 5th level: then if I insert a new level, which become the 5th, the teleport now teleports you to this level, this is normal, because it's a teleport which bring you out of the current level. <-- I had to reconfigure these teleports only.

All other teleports are ok.

Komag wrote:I like the idea of a big world, but I don't like the idea of a boring sparse world that's really only big for the sake of being big. All these levels, I can't help but worry about quality being low - what are you doing to avoid that?

Hard to say at this moment. You like or you don't like. It's a mix of open world like morrowind, with dm world. I may not even publish it, actually this is not what I want.
The player has a main quest, I hope enough interesting to give him the envy to play it until the end, composed of various and interesting landscape:

I plan city, forest, island/sea, cave, mine, volcanic area, psychedelic cave, red mountain, ice, swamps, epic places, sci-fi base, more... with explorations, puzzles, fighting and an "epic quest", that make it challenging.
It began"semi/linear", in a castle, then in the land around, finally the rest of the world (a small part in fact). Anyway, the player can follow this quest until the end. There is also other area, with side quest, or level, which are not needed to play, it's just to "enrich" contiguous levels or make a feeling to be in a "large various world".

E.g: the imperial city of is composed of 16 levels, 2 are needed for the quest, one for the shop. The other, temple, sewers, main plaza and castle entrance are not really needed. I could delete them, and regroup the only needed area, but I got the feeling that doing that will kills the city, and make it a small town. I want it big, to show something powerfull.
So I d say, 30-50% of the level (I don't know really, actually let's say: 1/3 of the level are not needed to be played). I think that in final, there will be 130 to 150 levels.

Just one thing to be clear, I'm not making hundreds and hundreds of levels to fill a map, many regions will not be used, this map is just here to show the world. I will not make, e.g. continuous sea shores, like in the picture, make all shores which brings to the Sea of Run, which start to dward territory until insectoid territory, that doesnt make any sense.

I don't intend to do, but this can be great for a group of modders. That make me think of the northern realm project, that you guys started with log1, a mod I really would have liked to play, specially done by killers like you, which shoots insane stuffs and scripts
I hope the project will come to a new start with log2.

What I'm realy afraid actually is:
Primary, if I can't run it on high details, and avoid "not enough memory" issues, I will not continu it. I cannot imagine that mod, with only a few wallset or only log2 assets. And if I should always reduce or remove texture, bricoler, etc... decrease the global quality, because I reach the memory limit... that will become realy boring and finally I will stop.

Secondary the global balancing with items, monsters and party levels. What I really don't like is that the main attribute, strength, dex.. etc.. upgrade the magic resistance. At a certain points magic protection will becomes useless. And for that, log2 is certainly not done for long mods. If I remember, at first, the attributes doesn't increase magic resistance. Don't remember if it was before 1st release or after.

Azel wrote:

bongobeat wrote:The real problem I encounter sometime, is for some reason, I had to insert a level between other, but I can't because I have teleporters on some levels or I'd have to reconfigure all teleporters.

I ran in to this early on and realized very quickly that if I want to add new Maps, it is better to Right Click on the very last level in the Game Editor, and add it there. It doesn't matter if this new level is listed last in the Game Editor, it has no impact on how it ends up on the map. Add new levels at the end, and simply adjust the X/Y/Z coordinates to place it where you want to.

So for example, if you have 10 levels in your Mod, and all the Teleporters from Map 2 have targets on Map 3. Then you want to add a level "between" Map 2 and Map 3; you do not have to literally add it between them on the Editor. If you try to do that, then the Teleporters on Map 2 will need to be reconfigured. Instead, this new Level (call it Map 11) simply needs to have its X/Y/Z coodinates adjusted so that when the game is played, it ends up between Map 2 and Map 3.

Hope that makes sense

actually what I'm doing, is alway arrange levels and new levels next to contiguous levels, with correct XYZ coordinates, except if there is teleporters like said upper.
Most of the time I did not make teleporter because I got problem with coordinates, but because I couldnt make a stairs or exit there. Because there is already something, and I did not want to remove that and put it on another place. Or more simply, in a certain level, a teleport to another level is activated for some reasons.
e.g. On a certain level I made a teleport "station" to go quickly to a city. But this is purely speculating, I got 6 or 7 levels with that kind of teleporters.

bongobeat wrote:

minmay wrote:

bongobeat wrote:The real problem I encounter sometime, is for some reason, I had to insert a level between other, but I can't because I have teleporters on some levels or I'd have to reconfigure all teleporters.

I don't understand how it's possible to have this problem in Grimrock 2? Levels' coordinates are independent of their level number, so moving the coordinates around shouldn't require changing any teleporters. The only way you'd need to change the order of levels in the editor for gameplay purposes is if you need them to initialize in a specific order or something.

True, I wrote this wrong.
I mean if you set a teleport that brings you into another level.
I always notice, that the teleport, let's say, if the teleport is on the 4th level and it teleports you in the 5th level: then if I insert a new level, which become the 5th, the teleport now teleports you to this level, this is normal, because it's a teleport which bring you out of the current level. <-- I had to reconfigure these teleports only.

But you don't need to do this! You don't need to insert new levels in the middle; you can just put them at the end and adjust the levels' world coordinates.