Grimrock 2 impossible for some?

[Rithrin]

(*) Heavy Weapons, Heavy Armor

This is offtopic, but I'd be interested in hearing your rationale for calling these overpowered. Light weapons have higher DPS than heavy weapons across the entirety of the main campaign (except for the very first few minutes before you find the dagger), and I find armor skill pretty much useless in both theory and practice, on solo characters and full parties alike.

Well, light weapons have a higher theoretical DPS than heavy weapons, but it's almost impossible to keep up with the click requirements of one dual wield light weapons character in a party, nonetheless two or three. That is, unless you are focusing solely on the light weapon user, in which case the rest of your party's DPS suffers as a result, making the light weapons' DPS rather counterproductive. That, combined with the need to dodge monster attacks, means you'll get more "real party DPS" out of 4 Heavy Weapons characters that only need to click a few times per tile.

Though, uh, we seem to be having deja vu here.

[Azel]

Well, light weapons have a higher theoretical DPS than heavy weapons, but it's almost impossible to keep up with the click requirements of one dual wield light weapons character in a party, nonetheless two or three. That is, unless you are focusing solely on the light weapon user, in which case the rest of your party's DPS suffers as a result, making the light weapons' DPS rather counterproductive. That, combined with the need to dodge monster attacks, means you'll get more "real party DPS" out of 4 Heavy Weapons characters that only need to click a few times per tile.

Though, uh, we seem to be having deja vu here.

Interesting. I was ridiculed in my "walking dead party" thread for stating that there is a "group DPS"

I do love the heavy weapons in the game, but I did notice that there is a light weapon that "leeches Hitpoints." I never used it, nor have I seen any posts that really highlight it. Was the life leech not worthwhile in Grimrock? Maybe I should test it out...

[Anurias]

There are 2 light weapons that have a life leech ability, one is a dagger and the other is a sword. The life leech is a special attack too. Also I'm not positive, but I think if you try to use the life leech on an undead you end up leeching unlife and drain your own life. I only ever used the attack on an undead once and when I did it, the character's health plummeted to almost dead and I'm almost positive the enemy didn't get an attack off at that time.

[minmay]

Leech has 10 more attack power than the normal attack and a cooldown of 4.5 (yes, for both weapons). If the monster you hit with it is undead you take 70% of the damage dealt yourself, otherwise if it's not an elemental or construct you are healed for 50% of the damage dealt. It's more convenient than actually useful, since normally you don't get hit in the first place and if you do there is no penalty to resting to full health after a fight.

Well, light weapons have a higher theoretical DPS than heavy weapons, but it's almost impossible to keep up with the click requirements of one dual wield light weapons character in a party, nonetheless two or three. That is, unless you are focusing solely on the light weapon user, in which case the rest of your party's DPS suffers as a result, making the light weapons' DPS rather counterproductive. That, combined with the need to dodge monster attacks, means you'll get more "real party DPS" out of 4 Heavy Weapons characters that only need to click a few times per tile.

*shrug* I never had a problem "keeping up" with clicking the attack buttons with full parties, except when my framerate was very low. I'll admit I haven't seriously tried 4 dual-wielding characters at once but that sounds highly suboptimal in the first place compared to having at least one character with spells, not to mention that the first 4 backstab attacks would kill anything short of a boss anyway.

[Rithrin]

I do love the heavy weapons in the game, but I did notice that there is a light weapon that "leeches Hitpoints." I never used it, nor have I seen any posts that really highlight it. Was the life leech not worthwhile in Grimrock? Maybe I should test it out...

Leech has 10 more attack power than the normal attack and a cooldown of 4.5 (yes, for both weapons). If the monster you hit with it is undead you take 70% of the damage dealt yourself, otherwise if it's not an elemental or construct you are healed for 50% of the damage dealt. It's more convenient than actually useful, since normally you don't get hit in the first place and if you do there is no penalty to resting to full health after a fight.

I used the first Leech dagger extensively (as it was always either my highest DPS dagger, held in primary, or at least second highest and held in the off-hand slot) and have to say that it would be incredibly useful if not for the immense Energy cost of the special. Normally I was wanting to use Thrust on the Punch Dagger to pierce the high damage reduction of stone elementals or just as general burst damage, leaving me with no real energy to use for Leeching. And the thought of using an Energy potion, just to facilitate a special attack that gains some health, rather than just using a Health potion was a bit absurd.

Then on top of that, I'd usually end up taking way more damage when I tried to use Leech than if I was just attacking normally; more focus put on timing the attack right and making sure I had a shot and less focus to spend on actually dodging attacks. So, yeah, it's not fantastic, but it is pretty cool.

*shrug* I never had a problem "keeping up" with clicking the attack buttons with full parties, except when my framerate was very low. I'll admit I haven't seriously tried 4 dual-wielding characters at once but that sounds highly suboptimal in the first place compared to having at least one character with spells, not to mention that the first 4 backstab attacks would kill anything short of a boss anyway.

Sure, that's kind of my point. I don't think Heavy Weapons are any more OP than Light Weapons (or magic, or bombs), because a balanced party seems to be the most optimal way of defeating enemies. Too many light weapons (like 2 or 3 dual wield characters) and suddenly attacks from one character are coming off cooldown before you can fire off another character's, but too many heavy weapons means sustained long-term DPS suffers and misses hurt a lot.

[Azel]

Oh good, now I don't feel compelled to replay the game solely to test out the effectiveness of the Leech weapons. I don't recall the dagger - mostly because I had no rogue and instantly disregarded such weapons - but I do recall the sword. I was already fully vested in my Throwing/Heavy Weapons duo (backed by 2 mages) so I didn't even bother trying the leech sword. However, my initial thought was, "hmmm, I wonder if I can recreate my Dual Wielding Life Leech Barbarian from Diablo 2

From the replies in this thread, looks like I can't do that just yet. Maybe in a future release/expansion/Mod.

[Dr.Disaster]

Earlier minmay said this:

Lost? CRTs are better than ever now that you can get them for free. I have like 6 of them in a closet.

You took him literally and made a serious response, to which he had to reply with, "i was joking." The same thing just happened to you again; you took me literally.

Too bad that you lack the imagination that there are people out there who like to build their personal 3x2 (or larger) display walls without paying several thousand bucks for it.

I did it using satire, and you responded as though I was being literal.

Seems your satire is flawed then. It might work better if it makes sense.

[Dr.Disaster]

(*) Heavy Weapons, Heavy Armor

This is offtopic, but I'd be interested in hearing your rationale for calling these overpowered. Light weapons have higher DPS than heavy weapons across the entirety of the main campaign (except for the very first few minutes before you find the dagger), and I find armor skill pretty much useless in both theory and practice, on solo characters and full parties alike.

My rationale: in-game experience.

For Heavy Weapons I'm sure nobody will argue that they are the most potent weapons in the game. With good Accuracy and Critical their one-hit-kill-potential is very high.

Heavy Armor does not require anything to use it aside the ability to wear it and still be able to move. With Evasion being far less effective in LoG2 then in LoG1 the heavy armor penalty of -10 Evasion per armor piece is frankly speaking a joke. How can i say so? Well how do you think i managed to clear the desert with a lone missile/dagger Rogue without Armor skill and without using a single healing potion?

SpoilerShow

Full Crystal Armor Set + Shield spell for +100 health, 101 protection and -6 Evasion on enter, then hack+slashed a path thru the mummies with my dagger and refreshed the Shield spell when needed. Most attacks of the mummies did of course hit due to negative Evasion but they dealt less than 10 damage per hit and most hits did only 1 damage so i had plenty of time to decimate them. When health finally got low it was either refresh at the crystal there or teleport out

[Azel]

Earlier minmay said this:

Lost? CRTs are better than ever now that you can get them for free. I have like 6 of them in a closet.

You took him literally and made a serious response, to which he had to reply with, "i was joking." The same thing just happened to you again; you took me literally.

Too bad that you lack the imagination that there are people out there who like to build their personal 3x2 (or larger) display walls without paying several thousand bucks for it.

I did it using satire, and you responded as though I was being literal.

Seems your satire is flawed then. It might work better if it makes sense.

Your brain can't handle anything non-literal and even when its spelled out the best you can do is argue that it's thet other person who is somehow magically in error; your idiocy knows no bounds

Well how do you think i managed to clear the desert with a lone missile/dagger Rogue without Armor skill and without using a single healing potion?

Using the same approach you are known for on the forums: cheese tactics.

I cleared the desert before I had a single Crystal/Meteor piece (my front-line Mino Throwing Barb wore Light Armor the entire game) and still never used a single healing potion either. I completed the task with Light Armor and you completed it with Heavy Armor... yet you concluded that Heavy Armor is over-powered. You're good at Grimrock it seems, but terrible at thinking.

[Dr.Disaster]

.. his usual ..

Out of arguments and reverting to insults again? Seems your logic blows up faster then you can build it.

Well how do you think i managed to clear the desert with a lone missile/dagger Rogue without Armor skill and without using a single healing potion?

Using the same approach you are known for on the forums: cheese tactics.

I cleared the desert before I had a single Crystal/Meteor piece (my front-line Mino Throwing Barb wore Light Armor the entire game) and still never used a single healing potion either. I completed the task with Light Armor and you completed it with Heavy Armor... yet you concluded that Heavy Armor is over-powered. You're good at Grimrock it seems, but terrible at thinking.

My solo insectiod throwing barb wore nothing but light armor the entire game and cleared the whole desert without a healing pot. Now if the rest of your party was dead the whole time while your thrower cleared the desert you might be playing in my league but are the chances this did happend anything beside zilch?

oops .. did your logic just blew up again?