Back to the Beholder

[Sol_HSA]

I have to admit. Gave EOB a go last night, and I'm so spoiled by LoG that I just didn't have the patience for it. =) The intro is still nice, though.

Envy mode engaged!

By now you probably know what I mean.

[TZO2k12]

Here's a neat looking gem it's called "Escape from Dragon Mountain" made by four very talented game devs! And I wish they would've finished this game as it would've given Grimrock some serious competition! Oh wait... (JK)

Here's a vid of the game in action..

Outstanding game guys, I'll be giving it a go after grimrock, haven't beaten it yet as I'm savoring it more than playing it!

There was also a Dungeon Master game for the Sega Saturn That of course, never made it out of Japan. (This is why I prefer PC gaming over consoles)

[DJK]

Hmm as one of the biggest Eye fans this side of the universe, I'd have to say I never got the feeling the "end" was rushed... Level 10 isn't to big but it's an important level storywise.. level 11 is actually pretty big and I never liked the mind flayers

Level 12 is smalish but I always considered it to be "xanathar's private quarters".. so didn't expect a whole big mazy level

There are indeed unfinished areas in the first 3 levels of the game that hinted at them "wanting to do more".. there is a stone portal among other things.. but in the end I can see why they decided to scrap that part... Your first stone portal is in level 4. The reason it's there is because you might use it to get back fast to the "Oracle" to identify your items. The second stone portal is Level 5. This one is used to get to the dwarven encampment (to return the prince or the dwarven healing potion or both)... after that the stone portals are present here and there just to provide ease of access between various levels of the dungeon (and out of nessesety as the only way to get back from level 12 to 11 is a stone portal, the only way from 11 to 7 is again a stone portal (as you dropped a pit to get to 11 from 10)..

To that effect, you can get from Level 4 (earliest stone portal) to the very first tile of the game on level 1 in about 60 seconds (literally).. both level 3 and 2 have a RATS (rapid access transportation system.. or portal) from the end of the level to near the beginning.

Sooo why would they need a stone portal in level 1/2 or 3 ? I think they realized that later on and scrapped those sections out of the game.

[Disasterrific]

10 is fine I guess with a decent bit of combat and exposition but there's no defending 11. It has one truly brilliant idea at the beginning and that's it, just hack and slash through the rest of the bland rooms. 12 again had a bunch of cool ideas but missed out on being as truly devilish as it could have been - which is what that pedestal trap hints at. I understand that it's a matter of budget and time restraints, but the game does suffer for it and it's pretty evident.

[Darklord]

I have to admit. Gave EOB a go last night, and I'm so spoiled by LoG that I just didn't have the patience for it. =) The intro is still nice, though.

Envy mode engaged!

By now you probably know what I mean.

Indeed I tried replaying DM again a couple of nights ago but struggled to get back into it.

Daniel.

[Thels]

10 is fine I guess with a decent bit of combat and exposition but there's no defending 11. It has one truly brilliant idea at the beginning and that's it, just hack and slash through the rest of the bland rooms. 12 again had a bunch of cool ideas but missed out on being as truly devilish as it could have been - which is what that pedestal trap hints at. I understand that it's a matter of budget and time restraints, but the game does suffer for it and it's pretty evident.

Actually, if you check the maps, then 9 out of the 12 levels fill out the 32x32 grid completely, where only 1, 10 and 12 have lots of space open. I didn't find 11 really that bland. Of course, in comparison to EoB2, the entire EoB1 is pretty bland.

And yes, gearwise it wasn't all that well thought out. EoB1 never had sequels in mind, it seems, as you literally get filled out with awesome gear:
+5 Longsword
+4 Longsword
+5 Halbard
+2 Short Sword
10x +5 Dart
+5 Dagger
+4 Dagger
+3 Dagger
Ring of Wizardry 4+5
Robe of Protection +5
Shield +3

And more of those goodies. All of that was pretty much endgame gear, which you could pick up at the 1st part. EoB2 and EoB3 really couldn't add new, shinier gear without going really over the top. This made the game a lot easier if you carried your EoB1 party over.

[Thels]

Hm I would actually really like to try EOB3 with characters form EOB2 - anybody have a final.sav I could borrow and try it out? Never gotten through EOB2 for some reason.

Not sure if this is still accurate, as it was a while ago, but I have some save games at the end of EoB1 and EoB2 with pretty much all the best gear. PM me if you want the saves.

[zalewapl]

The reason why EoB3 is so slow is because they made a completely new engine for this game. Aesop, the engine, looks exactly the same as the one that was used in previous games but has performance and sound issues and was never ported to Amiga. If I remember correctly, someone got a hold of the Aesop engine code and fixed it so the game runs more smoothly. I don't have any links though. Speaking of which: Amiga version of EoB1 also had an update. The graphics were updated to use AGA chipset, which gives the game higher color range, and you have an automap. It's better to play the Amiga version anyway because it has a real ending cinematic, while PC version has a screen with text and then game quits to DOS. The devs said that the proper outro was never created for PC version because they didn't think many people would even finish the game.

One way to keep the balance in EoB2 and still use a party imported from EoB1 is to hoard the low level items in EoB1 and once the game is imported discard all the overpowered stuff.

Return To Chaos was also mentioned here. Its a fairly good clone of the DM games. It comes with Dungeon Master, Chaos Strikes Back and Dungeon Master II campaigns included, so you have all 3 games in one. Also, folks released some custom built dungeons for this engine so the experience doesn't end with the stock maps. Unfortunately, source code for the DM games was not available so the game mechanics are not reproduced correctly. For example, from what I've read, Chaos Strikes Back is much easier in its original form, and this game is darn difficult. RTC makes it harder. Besides, the author of that engine has been (or is) either a very, very bad programmer or has the biggest ego ever. Each time you start the game you have to watch the starting animations that are unskippable. The supposed reason for this is that the game loads its resources (all enormous 14 Megabytes of them) during the initial "cinematics" and if the cinematics didn't play the player would be staring at black screen during this time.
Yeah, right.
Cinematics include the FTL company logo with 'FTL' letters replaced with the author's initials, and the title screen for the engine.

So, when it comes to Dungeon Master games, you're better off playing the original releases in Dosbox.

[Darklord]

So, when it comes to Dungeon Master games, you're better off playing the original releases in Dosbox.

Actually the Amiga version is generally regarded to be the best version of DM. (By Petri amongst others!)

Daniel.

[DJK]

Eye 2 was very good Ofcourse Im a sucker for Eye 1 ... just because it was the first one I played and was so overwhelmed by it all... I literally lost my life in those dungeons in a way no modern game ever managed..