Please FIX the XP system!

[seebs]

I haven't read every post on this thread, but am I right in understanding that the thing you want "fixed" is that you want all characters to hit some kind of experience roof before the game is over?

Not really.

Really, in practice, I think everyone who is active in the party during a fight should get comparable XP. Right now, if I have a mage who tosses fireballs one fight, and then spends the next regaining mana, that mage gets less XP despite doing much more of the damage overall than the other characters. Most RPGs spread XP evenly among party members precisely because contribution is more bursty for some characters than others.

But more significantly... Let's say we kill a Skeleton Square. 360xp. Four characters, so that's... 1440xp. Unless you have the mage fireball them, in which case you get 360xp on the mage, and 180xp on the others, for about 900xp. So about 5/8 XP; just over half.

It is surprisingly hard to get each of your melee characters to hit each skeleton in a square. (Furthermore, because it's slots rather than characters who are getting counted, it's harder than it seems; you have to run around and get the skeletons to turn so you can attack each side of the square so that front-right-melee gets credit on all four.)

I'd rather have plenty of headroom and let different characters grow in different directions than have everyone become demigods. Maybe it would have been better to keep the experience goodies hidden. =)

It would have been better not to apply a 35% experience penalty to parties who use their mages intelligently.

That's the thing. If killing four skeletons yielded 1440 total XP regardless, you'd have the characters who do the most coming out ahead, but the party as a whole wouldn't be getting penalized. As is, we're talking enough of an experience gap to make a difference between a party finishing at around level 12 or around level 14.

In general, hiding mechanics like this doesn't really help -- it just means people can't even figure out why they're being penalized.

[seebs]

Guys, I'm just playing the game without fretting over XP gain and all my characters are levelled evenly, with only the mage roughly half a level behind everyone else.

I really don't see the issue here.

The issue is that you might all be a level or more behind where you'd be if you were paying attention to XP gain and making sure everyone tagged as many mobs as possible.

[Kadaeux]

If the XP-per-mob were fixed, and the allocation of that XP changed, that would be a sort of annoying thing. And no matter how much he tries to be an internet tough guy and show off how manly he is, Mr. K. has not actually presented any actual argument as to why the person who's providing the healing in a fight shouldn't get XP, and the person who's doing damage should. That is not how party-based games work, or indeed, basically any game which tries to reward "contribution".

Lets try it another way. Why should a healer get experience for killing something he had absolutely no involvement in.

If your answer is anything but "you shouldn't" then you've failed completely.

If experience is being awarded for a kill (it is) then only people WHO WERE ACTUALLY INVOLVED WITH KILLING IT should get that experience. No exceptions. And here is a hint. Healing your people does not equal helping kill something. Sticking it with a sword, arrow or fireball IS.

And here is a hint. It is EXACTLY how party-based games work.

From Dungeons and Dragons to Rolemaster and so on and so forth.

[Spathi]

Seriously, is being insulting an "argument" now? Does this actually work? Does calling people names really make you win arguments? 'cuz it sure doesn't look like it from here.

No but its fun.


seriously though, you could now just wait and see what is fixed over the next few months.

[seebs]

seriously though, you could now just wait and see what is fixed over the next few months.

Well, yeah. And it's not as though I haven't already built a console tool which splits XP evenly among party members, although that doesn't fix the efficiency issue.

But as a simple matter of game design, there are really good reasons for which D&D and related games have historically split XP among all the party members who participated during a given adventure, not split each monster's XP up separately.

[dbgager]

Guys, I'm just playing the game without fretting over XP gain and all my characters are levelled evenly, with only the mage roughly half a level behind everyone else.

I really don't see the issue here.

The issue is that you might all be a level or more behind where you'd be if you were paying attention to XP gain and making sure everyone tagged as many mobs as possible.

Hey Seebs..Why don't you go run another party through level 1 again. My level 10 rogue has 800XP points less than my other 3 other level 10 characters which are all within 200 points of each other. I think you willl need to test, and investigate this further. them test it some more, because the game is not your idea of perfection and never will be. Thus making you unable to enjoy it, and you will never ever finish it.

I feel sorry for people with obsessive disorders.

[dbgager]

seriously though, you could now just wait and see what is fixed over the next few months.

Well, yeah. And it's not as though I haven't already built a console tool which splits XP evenly among party members, although that doesn't fix the efficiency issue.

But as a simple matter of game design, there are really good reasons for which D&D and related games have historically split XP among all the party members who participated during a given adventure, not split each monster's XP up separately.

And what are those reasons...seriosuly.

By the way, Have you noticed this is not a full roleplaying system. There are no rogue lockpiciking skills or other skills, Its a combat roleplaying system. The game player is expected to solve all the levels of the dungeon, not the party. There is no comparison to roleplaying systems made for adventures. So why would you even attempt to compare the two.

Oh I forgot...You really haven't even played the game yet.

Well I suggest you play it before making all these gripes and complaints.

[Luuthian]

I agree the lack of an XP split is bizarre. While I understand the game is attempting to recreate an old school system of roleplay, there is a reason more modern RPG's have evolved the way they have. Forcing your rear party to take part in actions that may be detrimental, simply because it's the only way to grant them full exp, seems odd.

While it may not be a game breaking issue, it is an annoyance that you need to be consciously aware of the exp split as you play. You should really be freely concentrating on other parts of the game, not having to worry about the exp your party will ultimately receive.

[Kadaeux]

I agree the lack of an XP split is bizarre. While I understand the game is attempting to recreate an old school system of roleplay, there is a reason more modern RPG's have evolved the way they have. Forcing your rear party to take part in actions that may be detrimental, simply because it's the only way to grant them full exp, seems odd.

While it may not be a game breaking issue, it is an annoyance that you need to be consciously aware of the exp split as you play. You should really be freely concentrating on other parts of the game, not having to worry about the exp your party will ultimately receive.

And, unless you're anally retentive, you don't have to worry about the exp your party will ultimately receive.

[Jack Dandy]

I didn't notice anything wrong with the XP system.