Grimrock

Dr.Disaster wrote:

crimsont wrote:I did mean at the minimum, if they do still want a way back up. I think it would have been a great deterrent if the first pit on level 1 would have landed the character into the middle of the Slime Challenge with no way out but to find the path out.

Droping lvl 1 chars into Slime Challenge is 1 instant party wipe. Next thing happening is player loads, notes the challenge, lvls his party up and returns when he knows the party can handle it. Grats for designing another boring death trap.

That pretty much sums up why the pits are the way they are. If pits would be major annoyances or death traps all you would achieve would be instant reload. Which is annoying. While I agree that the game encourages you to jump down pits a bit too much since more often than not some fancy treasure is waiting down there (even though it was similar in DM IIRC) it is still better than landing in a frustrating or even hopeless situation that screams 'press esc and reload already' at you.

A bit more punishment and a bit less treasure would be good imo, but making the pits huge annoyances will only result in players reloading all the time. Except for the most hardcore players maybe.

I liked the pits just the way they are. Saying so i hate falling down a pit, maybe because i'm climibing. I don't see a benefit in way harder pits where you die or fall into dead ends, that's bad game design. I
like pits in order not trying to fall down, in a few situation as a exploration method and a more 3d like level design. They could be more deadly if you on the other side can use ropes or rope ladders (which can break) but this would be something you need to test if it adds some reasonable value to he game.

Obviously the way you offer pits also affects the game design and all in all i was fine with the way it was done. I think there are other aspects which would benefit from improvements a lot more.

I was at first *expecting* to be dropped into a hard section of the level below, but was pleasantly surprised at the way they are. I immediately went back to all the pits I'd avoided and gleefully jumped into them all. It's just the way Grimrock pits are - they are another part of the exploration and puzzles, not hardcore punishment

Stacked pits are fun.

For instance, you fall into a pit on level 2 which is the top pit of a series of 3 pits so you land on a walled-off teleporter on level 5. The teleporter sends you to a small room on level 14 that has only a locked door in it. The key for the door is on level 8 and is guarded by a ferocious beast.

Should you get the key and open the door, there is only a pit in front of you and falling into it lands you on another teleporter that sends you back to level 2.

Pits in Grimrock weren't all roses, they often landed you in areas full of monsters. But, you knew that lots of monsters meant lots of goodies so if you design nightmare pits it should lead to something good if you manage to overcome the challenge.

Otherwise, it'll just be annoying as has been said already.

How about a levitation spell/potion? Depending on your weight and the strength of the spell/potion it lifts you one level above. It would be nice if the editor would allow you to add new spells/potions (i know, i read it won't).

levitation sounds pretty cool, maybe in a sequel or dlc

I don't think a Levitation would really work as it would trivialise pit puzzles.

Ixnatifual wrote:I don't think a Levitation would really work as it would trivialise pit puzzles.

Sure? Me thinks it could make rather complex pit puzzles possible.

Dr.Disaster wrote:

Ixnatifual wrote:I don't think a Levitation would really work as it would trivialise pit puzzles.

Sure? Me thinks it could make rather complex pit puzzles possible.

How? You can effectively skip any pit without having to close them.

Unless you don't have an Air mage in your party. Then you're instead screwed on any pit puzzles that require levitation to complete.

Ixnatifual wrote:

Dr.Disaster wrote:

Ixnatifual wrote:I don't think a Levitation would really work as it would trivialise pit puzzles.

Sure? Me thinks it could make rather complex pit puzzles possible.

How? You can effectively skip any pit without having to close them.

Unless you don't have an Air mage in your party. Then you're instead screwed on any pit puzzles that require levitation to complete.

Imagine a stacked pit puzzle spanning 3 or more level. While falling thru you could see and pass corridors/doors/gate branching off in lower levels. Without a well-placed cast of Levitation you won't be able to stop falling and check them out.

Air mage only: I would make it a Spellcraft spell, not element specific.
And haven't you seen spell charges on items while playing?

Levitation would also be time-limited (i.e. 5 to 10 seconds) and it could be area-specific i.e. work only in a 3x3 tile area (the tile you're on and all tiles around you).