Grimrock

petri wrote:A) Remove shield from crystal armor set. Crystal shield would still exist, but it would not be needed to complete the armor set.

Please make this change, but also change the Meteor Shield in the same way. There's no reason for these set bonuses to only be available to shield users.

rampantdurandal wrote:

petri wrote:A) Remove shield from crystal armor set. Crystal shield would still exist, but it would not be needed to complete the armor set.

Please make this change, but also change the Meteor Shield in the same way. There's no reason for these set bonuses to only be available to shield users.

The current implementation says pretty clearly that they were only meant to be available to shield users. In the case of the meteor set, you don't have the issue of max-vs-current, which is the only reason for changing the crystal one.

Of the two options presented I'd rather see the max/current change be made proportional. It solves the crystal set bonus issue, but if it's applied to those types of changes generally then it will solve the problem generally, not just with set items.

Neutronium Dragon wrote:The current implementation says pretty clearly that they were only meant to be available to shield users.

Oh, I understand this - my argument is that it's a poor implementation. This indirectly buffs Heavy Weapons builds, and nerfs Light Weapons and front-row Battlemages. Those are bad balance decisions.

The more good character builds a game has, the better it's re-playability.

thanks for thinking about the issue Petri and posting what you are looking at.
mucho appreciated!!

I think it is best to simply just drop the shield needed for set. That is how Archmage works and that is 50 energy.

Also be great to see other sets with bonuses.

Of course you can go toe-to-toe vs. whatever with any combo you like, that's totally up to you.
Yet the rules to get these specific buffs are crystal-clear and super-simple: "If you want this buff use this shield!"

petri wrote:B) Adjust health / energy as percentage. E.g. if character is at full health and completes the armor set, the character would still be at full health (which is now higher). Same with unequipping. Downside: More complex to implement.

If here is asked for opinion by the community, I would go for B., as this also fits intuitive to other equipment parts with stat changes, e.g. the normal shield with -15 health and +5 evasion.

badhabit wrote:If here is asked for opinion by the community, I would go for B., as this also fits intuitive to other equipment parts with stat changes, e.g. the normal shield with -15 health and +5 evasion.

The Ancient Shield does already work as it should on both equip and unequip.
Equip -> instant -15 max health (actual health is adjusted when needed) and +5 evasion
Unequip -> instant +15 max health (actual health does not change) and -5 evasion

Dr.Disaster wrote:

badhabit wrote:If here is asked for opinion by the community, I would go for B., as this also fits intuitive to other equipment parts with stat changes, e.g. the normal shield with -15 health and +5 evasion.

The Ancient Shield does already work as it should on both equip and unequip.
Equip -> instant -15 max health (actual health is adjusted when needed) and +5 evasion
Unequip -> instant +15 max health (actual health does not change) and -5 evasion

That's the question. Currently some health drain is reasonable as the ancient shield seems to be cursed. If Petri would change the the general behaviour of adding and removing max-health by switching objects also this case would be still reasonable without current-health drain. My point is this change would not destroy the balance, while clearly has side-effects, as in this case.

badhabit wrote:

Dr.Disaster wrote:

badhabit wrote:If here is asked for opinion by the community, I would go for B., as this also fits intuitive to other equipment parts with stat changes, e.g. the normal shield with -15 health and +5 evasion.

The Ancient Shield does already work as it should on both equip and unequip.
Equip -> instant -15 max health (actual health is adjusted when needed) and +5 evasion
Unequip -> instant +15 max health (actual health does not change) and -5 evasion

That's the question. Currently some health drain is reasonable as the ancient shield seems to be cursed. If Petri would change the the general behaviour of adding and removing max-health by switching objects also this case would be still reasonable without current-health drain. My point is this change would not destroy the balance, while clearly has side-effects, as in this case.

What do you mean by "That's the question."? This is how all LoG1 and LoG2 items always worked. No matter what the current health of a character is - even when he/she is down to a single(!) health point - equipping the Ancient Shield and receiving -15 to max health will never kill that character. Now changing the current item behavior to the proposed way results in a character going suicide by equipping the Ancient Shield.

Dr.Disaster wrote:

badhabit wrote:

Dr.Disaster wrote: The Ancient Shield does already work as it should on both equip and unequip.
Equip -> instant -15 max health (actual health is adjusted when needed) and +5 evasion
Unequip -> instant +15 max health (actual health does not change) and -5 evasion

That's the question. Currently some health drain is reasonable as the ancient shield seems to be cursed. If Petri would change the the general behaviour of adding and removing max-health by switching objects also this case would be still reasonable without current-health drain. My point is this change would not destroy the balance, while clearly has side-effects, as in this case.

What do you mean by "That's the question."? This is how all LoG1 and LoG2 items always worked. No matter what the current health of a character is - even when he/she is down to a single(!) health point - equipping the Ancient Shield and receiving -15 to max health will never kill that character. Now changing the current item behavior to the proposed way results in a character going suicide by equipping the Ancient Shield.

What do you talking about? Petri is considering changing the game mechanic, if he would do it according to model B:
B) Adjust health / energy as percentage. E.g. if character is at full health and completes the armor set, the character would still be at full health (which is now higher). Same with unequipping. Downside: More complex to implement.

...even the Ancient Shield would work and would not result in suicide when rounded reasonable, e.g. MaxHP=100, HP=100, %HP=100%, equip ancient shield: MaxHP=85, HP=85, %HP=100%, unequip Ancient Shield: MaxHP=100, HP=100, %HP=100%; Another case: MaxHP=100, HP=10, %HP=10%, equip ancient shield: MaxHP=85, HP=9 (rounded up to full points, internally not rounded but double), %HP=10%, unequip Ancient Shield: MaxHP=100, HP=10, %HP=10%;