Grimrock

While I wont argue against hamburgers being a great invention I will argue against the big mac itself, with the abysmal quality of meat, and other less than ideal ingredients in order to keep the cost of it down. By the way, those aren't mustard seeds on top of the bun, those are sesame seeds... if they were mustard seeds then every bite would be like eating a spoonful of wasabi. It would clear out your sinuses pretty effectively, but most people wouldn't be able to handle eating it. Also, to the person that said that the fries and coke made them feel sick, that's probably because those are the things that have the largest quantities of the stuff that will make the body get fat. There's actually a connection between when obesity rates in the US started to rise and when there was a change in what places like McDonald's used to make their fries.

Azel wrote:There was a similarity between your beloved Mc Donald's and gaming, only the similarity proved you wrong which is why you ran from it after introducing it. Your attempt at "These are true, and this is how" was nonsense from the beginning because what you are trying to say is true is that certain games are bad, which is purely subjective. The only thing that is bad here is your logic.

You can be bullheaded about if you wish, but you are not describing reality. The post was neither nonsense, nor anything I'd back away from. And I certainly stand by what I said.

Isaac wrote:Bethesda makes beautiful open world franken-shooters [stabbers] that are both mediocre shooters and mediocre RPGs... just enough of both to be tolerable to both groups of fans. If they made really good RPGs then they would loose the shooter fans; and if they made superb shooters, then they would only hamstring them by shoe-horning in RPG mechanics.

A subjective opinion that is based on nothing concrete, followed by a logical leap where you leave your brain behind.

Are you saying that they are not as I stated? And if so, can you prove that? They are as stated, that is ~if anything... concrete.
If you think not, then please elaborate with proof to the contrary.

Rithrin wrote:In both games, you start as some unskilled, poor sod that was taken into custody for (alleged) crimes. Through some trick of fate or destiny, you rise rapidly in power, overcoming all obstacles in your way, and achieve unparalleled power. If you are trying to dismiss Skyrim as an 'ego stroking' game, you must also dismiss Grimrock 2. That, or realize that both can be good, quality products that simply feature different game mechanics.

Exactly! But Isaac is too blinded by his own ego to see this; notice how in his reply to you he skips this entirely. I think he brains literally turns off when faced with smarts

Did you read that reply? What was it about my agreeing with Rithrin..(the valid point), leads you to that assumption; and why do you lace everything with jabs and insults? Your posts are needlessly caustic IMO.
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Rithrin wrote:While I'm not a huge fan of some of the recent Elder Scrolls games, how would one distinguish between Skyrim and Grimrock 2 in the area of 'ego stroking'?

In Skyrim, you are the dragonborn! Look how you change from prisoner-refugee into a powerful dragon-shouting warrior mage!

In Grimrock 2,

SpoilerShow

you become the Keeper! Look how you change from prisoners into the powerful Island Master, keeper of the spell that holds the universe together!

A sad spoiler; as I've not finished the game yet. It wasn't deliberate, but of course once read... it can't be unread.

Skyrim/Oblivion/FO3 is player empowerment fantasy; the fiction of it doesn't really matter that much... being the dragonborn/Vault-101-Dweller and the rest.

They are each concerned more with maintaining the dynamic world simulation and the perception that the player is the PC living there. This ~even to the detriment of any roleplaying mechanics it may have, as everything else is secondary, and the PC itself is practically negligible, and can be shed when inconvenient... which is a shame IMO, but that's how they want it. The games they make are designed to be a stream of consciousness sim, and their tagline for them is to be whoever you wish and do whatever you wish... and they don't really let the PC get in the way of that; and which is very bad for an RPG, I'd say.

Not really interested in whatever nerd rage gamer ego response you wanna type up, Isaac. Dropping you in to the irrelevant category. My favorite part about your ignorance is that you think these single player games are being built to appease an "ego" ... when it is only multiplayer games that allow people to express their ego. You are quite infantile.

Isaac wrote:They are each concerned more with maintaining the dynamic world simulation and the perception that the player is the PC living there. This ~even to the detriment of any roleplaying mechanics it may have, as everything else is secondary, and the PC itself is practically negligible, and can be shed when inconvenient... which is a shame IMO, but that's how they want it. The games they make are designed to be a stream of consciousness sim, and their tagline for them is to be whoever you wish and do whatever you wish... and they don't really let the PC get in the way of that; and which is very bad for an RPG, I'd say.

In other words you suck at gaming, which is why a grid-based game feels like a true RPG to you. Gotcha.

any6 wrote:Uhm big macs are actually one of the most awesome inventions ever. There's meat, white bread (luxury product 50 years ago), mustard seeds on top, cheese, vegetables. For less than 3 dollars, this is full meal, rich in almost every nutrient the body needs.

Imagine merely 200 years ago in the town where you currently live. To get such a quality and quantity of food for such a low price would be a dream come true. It would be science fiction. It's the food described in Jules Vernes stories.

Whenever I'm stuck in grimrock, I always figured it's good to take a little break, let the mind rest, eat a big mac and come back later.

LOL @ using Mc Donald's to fuel Grimrock obsessions. I am more of a Popeyes Chicken kinda gamer

Fried chicken is so dirty, but I love it too, lol.

Anurias wrote:While I wont argue against hamburgers being a great invention I will argue against the big mac itself, with the abysmal quality of meat, and other less than ideal ingredients in order to keep the
cost of it down.

In Australia we get good meat, can even get Angus burgers.

Is it true your burgers contain meat filler and pink slime?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FqOnOwQ ... e=youtu.be
The unhealthy bit is the sugar, but they fixed that...

Thanks, Sugar. We can tell you that there is no more than 5% sugar in our buns, in fact we reduced the amount of sugar in our buns back in 2004. All of our buns have no more than 5% sugar, no matter the variety. We use sugar in our baking process, not only for sweetness, but to provide a soft bun, consistent in size and texture with that golden brown finish when toasted!

In Hungry Jacks you can see wheat filler (or could), not sure if they are still half wheat crap as I don't eat them, but if you see light colored objects through the patty, about the size of seeds, it is grain/flour filler.

Azel wrote:Not really interested in whatever nerd rage gamer ego response you wanna type up, Isaac. Dropping you in to the irrelevant category. My favorite part about your ignorance is that you think these single player games are being built to appease an "ego" ... when it is only multiplayer games that allow people to express their ego. You are quite infantile.

Isaac wrote:They are each concerned more with maintaining the dynamic world simulation and the perception that the player is the PC living there. This ~even to the detriment of any roleplaying mechanics it may have, as everything else is secondary, and the PC itself is practically negligible, and can be shed when inconvenient... which is a shame IMO, but that's how they want it. The games they make are designed to be a stream of consciousness sim, and their tagline for them is to be whoever you wish and do whatever you wish... and they don't really let the PC get in the way of that; and which is very bad for an RPG, I'd say.

In other words you suck at gaming, which is why a grid-based game feels like a true RPG to you. Gotcha.

More insults; more backpeddling.

All you've shown yourself to be interested in is caustic gainsaying; that and attempting belittlement to avoid having to prove anything you've said once asked.

Arguing on the internet is like searching for Kilhagan

Isaac wrote:

Rithrin wrote: As a game designer, you shouldn't actively seek to add "unfun" mechanics into a game, nor should you seek to entirely add "fun" mechanics.

This is a point not often understood.

Imagine for a moment, that the developers put four small buttons next to the character portraits with the image of a lung on them.

But this is a bit [too] hyperbolic, and overshadows the valid point.

But notice that both food and air are easy when you have them, and not so when they are not around. Notice that Grimrock 2 does indeed make air a scarcity in certain parts of the game.

Well hey, hey, that example underscores, rather than overshadows, the main point. That's why I included the bit about SCP Containment Breach and manual eye blinking. My point was that manual breathing could actually be interesting (As an example, there could be lots of poison gas rooms, rooms with no oxygen, etc, designed as clever puzzles) but, since the game wasn't mechanically designed around it at all, there would be no reason to add it just for "annoyance".

However, my post was directed mainly at the person who was arguing that a food system shouldn't be "fun" as it's supposed to be a negative thing that you must deal with to succeed.

Isaac wrote:More insults; more backpeddling.

Insults, yes. Backpedaling, not at all. You backpedaled out of your Mc Donald's analogy once it fell apart. Your horrible analogy wasn't even complete. If Bethesda games are like Mc Donald's food, then what is Grimrock like? You only completed one part of the self-defeating analogy, complete the rest. Or you can keep backpedaling.

Bethesda games like Fallout 3 have won several Game of the Year awards. These are peer awards, from gamers who love gaming. So again, if that makes Bethesda like Mc Donald's, what does that make Almost Human like?

Isaac wrote:All you've shown yourself to be interested in is caustic gainsaying; that and attempting belittlement to avoid having to prove anything you've said once asked

Says the guy who keeps purposely avoiding explaining how Bethesda games are "Yes Man" games that appeal to player ego yet somehow Grimrock is different. I can prove my points by linking to Awards Bethesda has won over the years; what can you do besides quote hump and avoid stating a single fact?

You listed a few things you don't like about games like Skyrim but failed to explain how your personal dislikes translate to proof of "Yes man ego motives." You haven't even explained how your dislikes about Skyrim are different in Grimrock - for anyone with a brain it is clear that the things you hate in Skyrim fall short even worse in Grimrock. Nor have you explained how a single player RPG could be compared to a single player Dungeon Crawler. And of course, you have not explained how it is possible that single player games appeal to player ego's when it is only multiplayer games that allow an outword expression of ones ego.

Several posters have called out your terrible logic but all you do is skip over it and cry about being insulted. I've read your other whiny posts in other threads as well, such as your complaints about the existence of Hot Keys.

So what do we know about Isaac,
1) You have a photo avatar of a 1980's game.
2) You complain about Hot Keys
3) You complain that single player games like Skyrim appeal to player ego
4) You think the dungeon crawler game, Grimrock, is a better RPG experience than actual RPG's like Skyrim
5) You think award winning game developers are no more than Fast Food restaurants

It's painfully obvious that you're just an old dude who hates all the "young kid stuff." Only kids like Mc Donald's, Hot Keys, and dumb RPG's with a persistent world. Hey, maybe you should just wear a wizards hat and play Checkers at the old folks home. That's a way better RPG experience - or so I read somewhere.

Azel wrote:And of course, you have not explained how it is possible that single player games appeal to player ego's when it is only multiplayer games that allow an outword expression of ones ego.

Okay, uh, I agree that Isaac's posts are nutso, but this statement is very strange. Movies, books, single-player video games and many other forms of media act as fantasies and wish fulfilment more often than not. Grimrock and Skyrim are textbook examples of power fantasies: you're directed to think of yourself as the badass, powerful hero(es), you even get to commit massive amounts of violence and yet stay unambiguously the Good Guy(s). And there's nothing necessarily wrong with that, but it shouldn't be ignored.

The claim that Skyrim somehow does this more than Grimrock baffles me, though, I'll agree with you on that.