Paid Mods on Steam Workshop - A Discussion

[Granamir]

@ Leki
I'm answering just to be polite (even if my interest in this thread is over).

Now i have a better idea about your answers and where they came from.

Btw don't really know why u thought my ideas was so strong to be confused as demagogic.
Maybe u'r inside too much in this topic, from a personal point of view, to have a clear view.
What i wrote was just my point of view; there are no voting on the horizon, none is trying to proselytize; anyone is (obviously) free to have his own ideas and not wanting to change them too.

I thought maybe someone could be interested in having a serious adult talk about this topic (since AH policy about this is clear, so this tread is purely theoretical)...i always do this mistake, sorry my bad.

About the "math", i can give it but need to be open minded, and at the moment u seems too involved to be (don't take it personally, it's just what i see). Money are involved in every aspect of our lives (sincet we born, so we see them like air we breath), and this is another obstacle to have a clear vision. Talking more about this would lead us to a philosophical level, and that would be really OT here. Btw if u want to understand my general point of view just think about any "bad thing" in the world and ask yourself: what would happen if money (or sex, but his is another matter) was not involved at all? I make myself a question of this kind everytime i see something (real or not) i feel wrong and, digging deep, at the end i always get one of these answers: first cause of shit is money; second, far away, is sex; third, in a really small number of cases, is mental disease (sociopathy for example).

Sorry for all philosophical shit...but shit happens.
Wish u a nice evening.

[minmay]

What I tried to say is: Sorry, m8, with all respect, you are not able to judge any modder and his creative process - as I noticed, I believe modders are "renaissance people" in some way. They have skill, knowledge, talent or what ever it needs - to make a mod. And I strongly believe that each modder is capable enough to decide if theirs mod will be shared for free or for money - and it's not the choice of the audience / mob - if you want or mod users. So my point of view is: I welcome possibility to make the choice "for money or for free", by my self.
...
Short story: I really dislike that a lot of mod users started to yell: "modders must work for free / to share for free / because of something (usually sh*t arguments)". Well. Mod users have a choice as well - to pay for the mod or not, so what the fcuk is this ship about? Don't wanna pay - go and do better one and share it for free! Or what? Easier is to blame the moder, right? Because to post the sh*t on the formum takes only few sec, insteed of thausends hours of work, right? I'm happy for this small community. But this happens only becasuse AH is selling the game. They decide to give it for free or for money. We made the decission to pay for. Thats all. No blame, no shitstorm etc. Where is your's math "for money = worse product"? Moders today are in the same situation as an independent develpers some time ago, when digital games distribution and paymend methods etc was only future thing...

I think you would have a more productive discussion if you didn't assume bad faith like this. One of the first people in this thread to speak out against monetization has spent LOTS of time and resources on mods for Grimrock, with no monetary compensation as far as I know. If they were as greedy and selfish as you say, surely they wouldn't have done that!

[Azel]

... and then there is the "Lemonade Stand" approach to this entire debate.

I can imagine a young gamer somewhere spending far too much time building his/her very first Mod. Due to their age and inexperience the Mod will likely not be very enticing to more mature gamers, and in all likelihood there is probably one or more people in the kids life telling him that he spends way too much time playing games. With Mod's... even though you're creating a game, the non-gamers (your parents, your spouse) tend to view it the same way: you're still just playing a video game.

It's fairly easy for someone to tell a kid that their time would be better spent earning a few dollars running a Lemonade Stand. But I love the idea that this kid (fictitious person in this story) can earn a single dollar with a Mod. Even if it never amounts to more than a single dollar. It's a nice idea that an inexperienced child with a love for gaming can turn to real people in his/her life and say, "someone paid me for this!"

Today, kids face some rather harsh online experiences. The imaginary child in this story would likely encounter an unpleasant feedback loop here in the Grimrock community, for example. First, they would be prone to asking dumb Moding questions, thus calling down the wrath of Lord Minmay. Assuming they stuck around after that, they would try to advertise and publish their Mod. If they try to link to Steam or Nexus they may read the many posts on this forum talking about how Steam and Nexus are not locations people care about nor respect. And since the Mod in this story won't be very good, the feedback the kid receives will either be non-existent, or harsh (eg, "terrible Mod, dont download") - I've read this type of Feedback on Steam and Nexus.

Knowing that at the end of it all - after dealing with negativity by those in their immediate surroundings and online persona's - this kid can still wake up to an email notification stating that they have a paid customer! I bet he will always remember the dollar they made.

It's a nice idea that paid Mod's can replace the Lemonade Stand. I'm certain we are not too far from that.

Then again, there are some gawd awful kids out too Oh and no, I'm not the kid in this fake story lol. Sorry for the diatribe.