Grimrock

Hey, I just wanted to ask, how many RPG elements will in this game be? Is this more action-oriented crawler, or really a throwback to the oldschool stuff like Dungeon Master? I've looked at the trailers and screenshots, and other than seeing that there will be levels, I didn't see anything. So, how deep will the RPG elements be?

You can create and customize your characters at start and they level up and gain skill points as they gain exp. Skill points unlock special abilities and improve character's efficiency with weapons and spells. There's over 150 items in the game that boost various stats and abilities of the characters and many have other uses too (like herbs and scrolls).

Here's a rather old screenshot of the character generator:
http://www.grimrock.net/wp-content/uplo ... argen1.jpg

And the movement and combat and spell system are also similar to DM's.

This is looking sweet! The animation and art style is really polished. My friends and I are always looking for old school RPGs and indie throwbacks/reworkings of such nostalgic genres.

So, I have a question. While I dont see myself minding all that much personally (at least not with this sort of single player, party-based dungeon crawler); character customization being gender-inclusive is pretty important.. and could affect whether or some of my friends (fellow female gamers) end up giving the game a shot.

How many of the race/class configurations have a female option? Is there a global gender option, or is it only humans, or only certain classes? I'd understand the first two, but the latter would be rather disappointing.

Just going on the image you provided, it is hard to tell... My worry is that it works like this: after choosing human for race, you then pick a class, for which there is only one (exclusively female-gendered class). Hopefully thats not the case. Anyway, thanks in advance.

I think earlier one of the developers mentioned that a character's gender is determined by their portrait and nothing else.

Personally I don't see what the big deal is. Although it would be nice to have some gender-specific attributes, since those are absent, who cares what gender you get to play as. I played a bunch of games with female-only protagonists, and didn't think anything of it.

Alaric wrote:I think earlier one of the developers mentioned that a character's gender is determined by their portrait and nothing else.

Personally I don't see what the big deal is. Although it would be nice to have some gender-specific attributes, since those are absent, who cares what gender you get to play as. I played a bunch of games with female-only protagonists, and didn't think anything of it.

This would be ideal. If there is no "sex" attribute and it's based on pic only, people will likely be able to hack in any pics they want for the portrait.

Alaric wrote:I think earlier one of the developers mentioned that a character's gender is determined by their portrait and nothing else.

Personally I don't see what the big deal is. Although it would be nice to have some gender-specific attributes, since those are absent, who cares what gender you get to play as. I played a bunch of games with female-only protagonists, and didn't think anything of it.

I'd rather not get into this side of the conversation, as it has been done in so many forums so many times, and tends to bring out the worst in people for some reason (its pretty sad to see some such discussions on military-FPS games where girls just want to be able to feel immersed in their experience, but the guys all either need to constantly reaffirm how much more suited they are for front-line combat IRL; or they just throw around more subtle sexism like 'i could never play a game where i shoot a woman' even though its been a reality of war throughout various societies that you have to shoot back at the sniper taking out your squad even if she is :gasp: a woman)...
Fact is, some people just get really into their roleplay, and simply do not like to play games where they are not able to play in their own gender. Its often more difficult in games that go out of their way to have intricate and detailed customization options, yet still exclude women (eg Brink; but also most MMOFPS games unfortunately).. But its definitely more of obvious problem in multiplayer games, where everyone around you in the game world sees your avatar, and generally treats you as that gender. I can definitely relate to that myself, as its one of the many things that has led me to stop playing BF3...

However, a couple of my friends feel rather strongly about it more broadly, and essentially boycott all games that force you into a male protagonist, mainly due to the history of exclusion of females, both in the mainly because female gamers have really been starting to make themselves visible; and are writing and talking about games more openly.

For my best friend, its actually rather emotionally triggering for her to try and play anything with a male avatar, so I have recently become much more tuned in to this sort of thing. We both love RPGs and love to play games together, even when its just playing the same single player game at the same time, so I often check out this sort of thing before she even knows about the game to make it a bit easier on her to find games that she can enjoy and get immersed in...

Anyway, I digress, and I wanted to avoid any drama over this. They have their reasons, and I respect that. They deserve the immersion just as much as the next gamer. So while I am personally not going to let playing with a male character get in the way of my own enjoyment of a great game, I still acknowledge why its not going to be enjoyable for other women, and recognize the overall disparity in gaming culture/history.. So, I fully support their decisions when they decide a game is not inclusive enough for them, and like to know what games are or are not going to fit that bill before I buy them or recommend them.

Thanks and hope to hear more details about character customization in general, too.

This got me thinking.

What games would I have to boycott if I suddenly decided that I cannot possibly play a game unless it has a male protagonist?

Let's see then...

1. The Longest Journey
2. Beyond Good and Evil
3. King's Quest 4
4. King's Quest 7
5. The Legend of Kyrandia 2 ~ The Hand of Fate
6. Phantasmagoria
7. American McGee's Alice
8. Alice: Madness Returns
9. No One Lives Forever
10. No One Lives Forever ~ A Spy in H.A.R.M.'s Way
11. Dreamfall ~ The Longest Journey
12. Keepsake
13. Portal
14. Portal 2
15. All 700000000000 Tomb Raider games

And all of these are the ones I could think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there is a lot more.

So, umm... while I could live without #15, it would be utterly silly to do something like this.

Let's not start this conversation here. Please.

Please don't get me wrong. I absolutely respect everyone's right to choose the entertainment that's right for them. It's a personal choice for every single individual, and certainly none of my business. All I was trying to do is understand the reasoning behind the choice, so that if I decide to make a game or write a book of my own, I wouldn't encounter such problems with my audience.

But, I guess, if you guys don't want to discuss this, we can just let it drop.