Grimrock

So I'm at the part of the game where the last gem means fighting the big bad boss.

And so it ends for me as it's pointless to continue this grind.

Some background. Started playing video games in the late 70s on the Atari 2600. Before that, arcades and pool halls. My first exposure to the dungeon crawl was the EOB series and then Wizardry and Might and Magic, with VI being the best of them all.

In all of these games, finally getting to that big final battle, I always had a chance. The overall progression of the game lead you to a point where your characters were strong enough to tackle the final battle. Granted, Might and Magic VI required a lot of respawning. That was one hell of a game and one I played for months. Of course back then my daughter was 10 and didn't care if she killed the same dragons over and over 25 times.

But she's 29, out of the house, and I just don't have the patience to do that kind of grinding anymore. My characters are at level 15 and, watching the video of the final fight, I'm going to need to go up another 15 levels to have any chance. I'm just not as fast and dexterous as I was 20 years ago.

So after 61 hours of recorded time (who knows how many hours real time with all the reloading I had to do) I simply can't do this anymore. Not because I'm tired of fighting the same creatures over and over but because there just aren't enough of them anymore. The respawning rate and amount of this game is no where near what Might and Magic VI was. I'm am literally combing every inch of the map (I've been everywhere but the top of the castle) begging for a fight. Outside of the mines, where the spiders seem to spawn at least fairly decently, the rest of the LoG 2 world is slim pickings. I would say, not counting the mines, I'm lucky if I get 1,000 XP an hour. At that rate, it'll take me months just to get to level 16.

At age 60, I don't have that kind of patience anymore.

Don't get me wrong. LoG 1 and 2 have been the most fun I've had playing dungeon crawlers in 20 years. These may be two of my favorite games of all time. But LoG 2 is not well balanced. It's way too hard early on (could have never gotten through the early game without all the maps and videos) and just not hard enough after you've cleared everything except the final battle. Yes, there have been some areas where, for a short time anyway, things got a little crazy (the trees popping up outside Temple Nex and roaming Medusas out on the streets) but it didn't last long and eventually the game forces you to move on to the final level, tough enough or not.

LoG 1 was much more balanced. As difficult as that cube was to beat, it required cunning over brute strength, LoG 2, there is no way around it. Your party has to be buffed and you have to be super quick with your movements.

Now to be fair, the party I put together has turned out to be a relatively weak one. Two mages was probably a bad idea but I've always played all my games with two mages. It worked with LoG 1. With LoG 2, not so much. Plus, I wasted way too many points early on. The new system threw me a bit and if I were to start over, I'd do things a lot different.

Still, getting as far as I've gotten, I should be able to give the boss a run for his money. And on his own, sure. But having to deal with him and his motley crew, no way. I'm not even close to being ready.

So I'll be putting the main game aside for a while and probably either play some user made dungeons or create my own. The game engine itself is excellent. I have no complaints about anything. But this game is ultimately made for kids who probably don't mind spending a good part of their time looking up maps and watching walk through videos. We didn't have that stuff when I was playing this stuff back in the 80s and 90s. Heck, I didn't get on the Internet until 1997.

FWIW, I have absolutely loved playing this game right up until now. But the upcoming grind just doesn't interest me. Not when there is hardly anything left to fight.

So that would be my only suggestion for LoG 3 if it ever comes out. Have the respawn really ramp things up after a certain level. Especially if the last battle is as tough as this one is.

Otherwise, thanks for a truly amazing game that I'll be playing in some form for a very long time.

As long as you have a party member with at least 3 levels of the Alchemy skill, you can turn all your falconskyre and blooddrop blossoms into rage potions, then have one party member drink them all at once, plus a speed potion. This will increase their strength by 20 for every range potion, and the speed potion halves their cooldowns, allowing you to kill both the final bosses (and anything else) in a couple of seconds when wielding a strength-based weapon (or even unarmed). You can add a bear form potion for even more damage.

Of course, this assumes you have a decent amount of blooddrop blossom and falconskyre left.

minmay wrote:As long as you have a party member with at least 3 levels of the Alchemy skill, you can turn all your falconskyre and blooddrop blossoms into rage potions, then have one party member drink them all at once, plus a speed potion. This will increase their strength by 20 for every range potion, and the speed potion halves their cooldowns, allowing you to kill both the final bosses (and anything else) in a couple of seconds when wielding a strength-based weapon (or even unarmed). You can add a bear form potion for even more damage.

Of course, this assumes you have a decent amount of blooddrop blossom and falconskyre left.

Interesting. Okay, I guess I can give this a shot. However, that means I'll still have to grind out one more level as my two mages are at Alchemy 2. As for the ingredients, have never used falconskyre (don't even know what it's for) so have plenty of it. But blooddrop is a totally different story as it's used for healing. Not sure I have any left at all and doubtful there's any left on the map unless they respawn as well. If not, I'm pretty much screwed.

wagtunes wrote:My characters are at level 15 and, watching the video of the final fight, I'm going to need to go up another 15 levels to have any chance. I'm just not as fast and dexterous as I was 20 years ago.

Level 15 is the reasonable max level a non-Farmer reaches in the base game and that is quite sufficient. My first game was with the default party during beta and even they managed to beat the final boss at 14 with far from being perfect.

Now screwing up skill distribution can be a setback but trying to grind yourself a few more levels won't fix this. Reason is the XP gaps between levels just keep getting larger and larger so you're looking at a bottomless pit here. It's just boring and frustrating. Either replay with a fresh party and get your skills right then or come up with a strategy to beat the last boss.

wagtunes wrote:I did not see a need to be faster or more dexterous for the final fight then for the rest of the game.

Regarding "fast and dexterous": no idea how or why you spoilered yourself on the final fight. True, better don't expect to beat the final boss in just one or two tries. He's a mean dude and you better have a bunch of red and blue and black potions ready for use. Then again it's as always: find the weaknesses and use them to your advantage.

minmay wrote:As long as you have a party member with at least 3 levels of the Alchemy skill, you can turn all your falconskyre and blooddrop blossoms into rage potions, then have one party member drink them all at once, plus a speed potion. This will increase their strength by 20 for every range potion, and the speed potion halves their cooldowns, allowing you to kill both the final bosses (and anything else) in a couple of seconds when wielding a strength-based weapon (or even unarmed). You can add a bear form potion for even more damage.

Of course, this assumes you have a decent amount of blooddrop blossom and falconskyre left.

Okay, managed to make 6 rage potions. Will that be sufficient?

Well, I've finally decided to abandon the main game and play a user made dungeon if somebody can recommend a good one like the one they made for LoG 1 (Round Robin 2)

My decision was basically made on two things.

1. It is now 100,000 XP between levels (I'm at level 17) and I simply don't have the patience to grind that much given how little creatures there are in this game right now.

2. I recently finally solved the Pyramid Of Umas puzzle (the one with the two pressure plates) that ultimately allow you to get into the room with the 3 snakes and the 2 Medusas. Using all my rage potions (7 of them) and a speed potion for each party member, I barely made it out of there alive. 3 members were dead and one member was near death. If I had that much trouble with that battle, I will have no chance when I get to the castle rooftop.

It was fun while it lasted. And not every game has to end with a victory. Sometimes, you lose. This is one of those times.

FWIW, I think they made this game way too hard. But that's just my opinion.

Anyway, off to find another dungeon to play. If somebody can recommend something really great, I'm all in. ORRR 2 was amazing. I loved every minute of it in LoG 1, which I think I still love more than LoG 2. The outdoor stuff just doesn't do it for me. At least not the way this game was setup.

wagtunes wrote: 1. It is now 100,000 XP between levels (I'm at level 17) and I simply don't have the patience to grind that much given how little creatures there are in this game right now.

If you're not opposed to a slight cheat, you can access the console command and get a few extra things that might help... like those healing shards... which if you keep equipped on one person can heal the whole party... or bump up your XP to see if a level or two makes a difference...

wagtunes wrote:Well, I've finally decided to abandon the main game and play a user made dungeon if somebody can recommend a good one like the one they made for LoG 1 (Round Robin 2)

My recommendations would be
a) The Mountain. It will allow your party to level quite a bit since monsters respawn frequently, are tougher and give more XP than usual. It's definately an advanced mod since combat can get rough at times and puzzles are challenging.
b) Peasant's Quest. A very nice puzzle mod with almost no combat. Quite unique IMO.
c) Artifacts of Might. Minmay's demo dungeon for Germanny's extended Dungeon Master tile and item set. IMO a must play. Combat is fair and puzzles are tricky at times.
d) Journey of Justice. I've only played the first act but if the entire mod is similar it's definately worth playing.

wagtunes wrote:I recently finally solved the Pyramid Of Umas puzzle (the one with the two pressure plates) that ultimately allow you to get into the room with the 3 snakes and the 2 Medusas. Using all my rage potions (7 of them) and a speed potion for each party member, I barely made it out of there alive. 3 members were dead and one member was near death. If I had that much trouble with that battle, I will have no chance when I get to the castle rooftop.

This trap is one of the deadliest in the game. It's an optional battle for an epic item and does not really reflect the boss battles at the end.

btw: you haven't been to the roottop with 19 gems yet? Why?
I assumed you've already been there since it take only 16 gems to get there; thus my hints on the final battle.

Dr.Disaster wrote:

wagtunes wrote:Well, I've finally decided to abandon the main game and play a user made dungeon if somebody can recommend a good one like the one they made for LoG 1 (Round Robin 2)

My recommendations would be
a) The Mountain. It will allow your party to level quite a bit since monsters respawn frequently, are tougher and give more XP than usual. It's definately an advanced mod since combat can get rough at times and puzzles are challenging.
b) Peasant's Quest. A very nice puzzle mod with almost no combat. Quite unique IMO.
c) Artifacts of Might. Minmay's demo dungeon for Germanny's extended Dungeon Master tile and item set. IMO a must play. Combat is fair and puzzles are tricky at times.
d) Journey of Justice. I've only played the first act but if the entire mod is similar it's definately worth playing.

wagtunes wrote:I recently finally solved the Pyramid Of Umas puzzle (the one with the two pressure plates) that ultimately allow you to get into the room with the 3 snakes and the 2 Medusas. Using all my rage potions (7 of them) and a speed potion for each party member, I barely made it out of there alive. 3 members were dead and one member was near death. If I had that much trouble with that battle, I will have no chance when I get to the castle rooftop.

This trap is one of the deadliest in the game. It's an optional battle for an epic item and does not really reflect the boss battles at the end.

btw: you haven't been to the roottop with 19 gems yet? Why?
I assumed you've already been there since it take only 16 gems to get there; thus my hints on the final battle.

I tried the rooftop battle once. When I got to the Magma Golem wave that was it. I was toast. In the meantime, the amount of damage I was able to do to the boss before that wave came could be measured in droplets. The bar moved about a quarter of an inch, if that much.

Obviously, either I screwed up in leveling or equiping my party or I just suck at this game. Because my chances of killing the boss, even at level 17, at this point are slim to none.

I had an easier time with the Cube in LoG 1.

Sir Tawmis wrote:

wagtunes wrote: 1. It is now 100,000 XP between levels (I'm at level 17) and I simply don't have the patience to grind that much given how little creatures there are in this game right now.

If you're not opposed to a slight cheat, you can access the console command and get a few extra things that might help... like those healing shards... which if you keep equipped on one person can heal the whole party... or bump up your XP to see if a level or two makes a difference...

Sure, at this point I'll try anything but have no idea how to access the console.