Grimrock

I had vacation this entire week, and had planned to spend much of it on this game. I really went at it and completed it earlier today. I was very impressed. Here's what I wrote about the game on Steam:

Bigger isn't always better. But in Legend of Grimrock 2, it's better most of the time.

They've kept what made Legend of Grimrock great, rectified some of its failings and generally expanded much on variety and content. The latter bring a failing new to Grimrock. Some of the puzzles and their clues span the game world and can require quite a bit of backtracking if you missed some clue along the way, or didn't bother writing it down.

But these incidents are few and far between compared to all the goodness this game has to offer. New dangerous-looking enemies make it harder to dance around the less-than-up-to-it AI of the first game. I won't spoil it for you, but some enemies were just genious. The new environments, including outdoor ones, are varied and beautiful. New puzzle elements bring spice to the old formula, allowing you to feel different kinds of clever upon solving them. (Or different kinds of stupid!)

Class and skill systems have been revised, with additional classes and a new race - the ratlings.

In short, if you liked the first one, you're gonna love this one.

9/10

A few extra criticisms:
- There was way too little ammunition for my Firearms ratling. In most fights he was dead weight because I was conserving ammo. I've seen it suggested that alchemists can create pellets, but I think it would be best to just increase the available ammunition. After all, parties without alchemists need ammo, too.
- Some of the boss fights felt like they relied a little too much on luck, whereas others were too easy.
- I feel the spell learning system is flawed and had hoped it was changed from the first game. Perhaps make scrolls needed to cast a spell, or have it be a part of leveling up. It seems wrong that a character knows all spells because the player has played the game before or has looked it up.
- I preferred some things in the old skill system. Such as having more points to spend when leveling up and having deeper skill trees you could sink more points into. I think there's both a psychological factor in feeling more choice with more points, but also that in the new system, mastering a skill can be done very quickly, whereas I feel it should require more effort.
- Some of monster AIs were still a little too easy to manipulate.
- I felt falling through pits was overly punishing this time around due to the high injury chance.

Some things I really liked:
- The toad monster was just awesome. It reminded me of the giant lizard from Lands of Lore: The Throne of Chaos, but even more awesome.
- The mimic! Their AI isn't that great, but it looks so cool and the surprise the first one gave me will stay with me for a while.
- Some puzzles were just extremely satsifying to solve. Particularly the one leading up to the "good" ending. I will admit this even if this goes against a criticism I had. It was made better because the shrines with the clues were easy to find, and I was lucky to re-find the Kilhagan clue about the spell without much trouble. I would have made the player find a note or scroll written by Kilhagan instead to avoid a situation where the player has to backtrack to a possibly unknown location for the clue, if he even remembers it.
- The new casting option that saves you a click was very nice.
- Was really impressed by the water environments. Although I wish you hadn't stooped to placing hidden buttons down there.
- When those zombies started spawning at the top of the pyramid, I figured I'd jump into the teleporter and stop whatever was spawning them. I was not prepared for the sight that met me on the other side. Wow!
- I particularly liked the atmospheric music in the swamps.

In short, thank you so much for making this game. I eagerly await whatever game you'll make next. (After some well-deserved R&R, of course)

You bring some great points.

For the ammos, I think its truly manageable if you have only one firearm user in your party. Since it was clear ammo was recoverable it seems good to quickly have another way to fight when you dont want to waste ammo ( throwing stuff is the easiest solution, though it wont be top efficient since it requires strength and your firearm dude prob has Dex). My magic / firearm alchemist did terrible damage but had a very interesting range of skills as a backup long range / potion maker / control spells. Without being a damage dealer he saved the party's life a million times

Ixnatifual wrote: - Some of the boss fights felt like they relied a little too much on luck, whereas others were too easy.

Curious, which boss do you feel relied on luck?

Ixnatifual wrote: - I feel the spell learning system is flawed and had hoped it was changed from the first game. Perhaps make scrolls needed to cast a spell, or have it be a part of leveling up. It seems wrong that a character knows all spells because the player has played the game before or has looked it up.

Agreed. Having to find the scroll to learn it would be best IMO, meta gaming sucks. I'm hoping we can find a way to mod around it though.

Ixnatifual wrote: - I preferred some things in the old skill system. Such as having more points to spend when leveling up and having deeper skill trees you could sink more points into. I think there's both a psychological factor in feeling more choice with more points, but also that in the new system, mastering a skill can be done very quickly, whereas I feel it should require more effort.

Yep, I think its mostly a psychological thing but totally agree it felt less satisfying to level. Purely because I had just one point to put. Mastering things quickly didnt bother me. What I found weird is that very early weapons required quite high skill levels! It forced me to concentrate on one skill for several character and made me feel like I was really free to increase other skills until later levels. Wouldnt mind skills being 10 to max rather than five with 2 points per level. Adding some stat +1 boost on those would make them more appealing too. Not sure why that part got removed from the first game.

Ixnatifual wrote: - I felt falling through pits was overly punishing this time around due to the high injury chance.

Ah yes! A point I totally forgot to bring. But then people are gonna think even more I hated the game, sigh!
Injuries feel flawed right now. Especially the randomness of it. Falling in pits is part of the exploration but having broken feet ( or any injuries) is a HUGE downer on party's survival chances. I think it would be OK if those healed with some resting but i tried sleeping for over 3 days and 3 nights in game and it never freaking healed!? Since I was playing with single crystal use, it meant trying a hole could mean spending several healing potions...

Ixnatifual wrote: - The mimic! Their AI isn't that great, but it looks so cool and the surprise the first one gave me will stay with me for a while.

Oh true! So happy mimics were in! I just wish not all chests were mimics in the bog, that kinda killed the surprise.


And agreed on the satisfying puzzles ( proud I looked for help online only for the last part of a single puzzle!) and the mummy army. I ran into the teleporter with the same thought and had a big "oh shit--" moment. Was wonderful.

The rat boss fight stands out there. There was little space to manoever and difficult to never be in his line of sight. His cannon one-shotted one or more party members. I'm thinking I went to that area earlier than intended. Interestingly I went to the pyramid last because it took quite a while for me to find the spells needed to get at the Serpent Staff, and the monsters there couldn't really hurt me. I felt I was supposed to have gone there first.

I also found myself trapped in the Herder fight often when there was only one spawner left. There were so many of them blocking the way to the last spawner it was difficult to not take chances, so I had to savescum like crazy there.

On the other hand, I don't think the dragon even hit me once, and the Wormbound Brothers died super fast before they had a chance to do anything.

The rat boss is crazy hard, I waited for a while before entering that area because of the warning and still had a tough time. Had to use a blue crystal gem.
I think the trick for him is to wait that he moves in your vicinity, if you move first he shoots instantly even if he s not looking at you. Wait for him then lock him in one of them fancy magic cube, kill a bunch of the rats. Rinse and repeat until all ratlings are gone except for the boss. The ratlings dont hurt much, they are mostly a problem because they corner and block you. With that strategy in mind it should be too luck based.

Tomb felt too easy for the exact same reason. Puzzle asked me for firebolt, I left. Once i found firebolt I came back and now the puzzle was asking me for shockbolt so i had to leave again and come back much later. :/
However the tomb's "boss battle" didnt feel easy. Magma guys + trickster gave a great fight.

Died in herder due to getting stuck with just one spawner left too ( got trapped in the kilhagan dead end). I ll agree it's luck based whether or not you get trapped in the dead end since there s no way of knowing the map ahead of time. But the fight is still probably manageable.

Surprised the dragon didnt hit you, nice. I mean he's not that fast but the area became quite chaotic during the snake or the magma golem summon so he did hit me a bit. I found that fight bit boring in the first part, but interesting from the second half. Should have raised the difficulty sooner ( summon toads in the first round maybe :p Gosh, having your weapons stolen during a boss fight would be dreadful haha!)

blob wrote:Tomb felt too easy for the exact same reason. Puzzle asked me for firebolt, I left. Once i found firebolt I came back and now the puzzle was asking me for shockbolt so i had to leave again and come back much later. :/
However the tomb's "boss battle" didnt feel easy. Magma guys + trickster gave a great fight.

Yeah, I did the same back and forth with that puzzle. The boss battle in the tomb wasn't too problematic for me. I had a maxed fire mage and a decent supply of energy potions, so I could clear the undead quite effectively. By the time the magma dudes were a thing I had plenty of space to move about. Still this was probably one of my favourite events in the game just for the epic sight of the undead army as you enter the desert.

That make sense, with only ice magic it took quite a bit of hacking through. ^^